Return of Herm
December 27, 2007 · 30:10 · The nineteenth episode of the Jet Kingdom podcast about the New York Jets, AFC East and all things football.
More from 2007: the 2007 episode archive, and what 2007 meant in my Jets story. Or browse every era of the Jets logos.
Opening
(No Conan opener detected in this episode's audio/transcript.)
Transcript
Machine transcript generated in 2026 by Grok Bot from the episode audio (Whisper small.en + sherpa-onnx speaker diarization). Speakers labeled Opening / Jake / Justin. Timestamps about every three minutes. Diarization note: HOST_LOCK: after Opening, host/welcome voice = Jake; other = Justin; host-welcome cluster=1 @ 16.6s → Jake; other-primary cluster=0 → Justin; Jason-ref Jake cluster 1 sim=0.60.
00:16 Jake: This is the Jet Kingdom Podcast, episode number 19 for Thursday, December 27, 2007. Return of Herme. Well, welcome to the Jet Kingdom podcast. As always, I am Jake and on the other side Justin: of the digital aisle. As always on this digital aisle is Justin. Bringing in the new year. Jake: This is the last podcast of 2007 and let me say thank God. Oh man, this has been a brutal Justin: season. Yeah, this was bad 2007. Jake: first year of podcasting. It would be nice if we were doing a podcast at the end of 2008 and we were Justin: talking about boy can't wait to get into the playoffs should we play them or not. You know it's good though, you know it's good. We had our rookie season, us as rookies, during a season where the enthusiasm is probably a little bit lower than it could have been so we got one under our belt. We're not done. We have one more to go. But we got one under our belt. A season that is. And we move on to bigger and better things in seasons to come. Jake: That's true. Well, as the last one of the 2007 season end, well, 2007 season, we'll go on and have other podcasts. So if you're listening, don't worry about it. They will continue to come into 2008. We will have... talk about when we're going to have the next podcast, but definitely next week. And I think we agreed that we're going to go all the way through the end of the Super Bowl. And then we'll kind of probably take a break for maybe come back every couple weeks, three, four weeks, and see where we are with the Jets. Maybe after some big news, we might get back in here and talk about it, and definitely do something before and after the draft. So. So. They played like they needed to win and I think the Jets kind of played like well they're there and so they might as well play And that's kind of what kind of way it felt going into the game I mean currently Jets lost six to ten if you weren't paying attention and We didn't get to see Calvin Clemens. I guess he's out It seemed a little unofficial. He was hurt, but Chad got the nod to come in.
03:02 Jake: I consider it showcasing him because the rumors are flying around that he's going to be on the chopping block at the end of the season to some other team that really wants him. because It's looking more and more like the Jets really don't want him and Kellen Clemens is the guy who at least we think we can win with in the near term. We talk a little bit more after that. The game was basically boring. It was a slow game. It was 0-0 in the first quarter and then it kind of went back and forth a little bit. and Basically, they won by four points. And other than a missing a field goal, which we could talk about are fools, although I'm not going to give him my fool, it just wasn't that interesting of a game. It wasn't... I don't know. It didn't call to me. I mean, maybe it's because the season is completely over. Maybe it's because even looking to see if anybody could stand up in this game... They weren't doing it. I mean, you know, this wasn't even watching our rookie quarterback at that point of being like, okay It's cool. It's watching Chad and you know what Chad's gonna do what Chad does He's gonna go in he's gonna throw a high percentage of Completed passes he's gonna get you a lot of yards, but he's gonna throw a couple interceptions and that's what he does What what do you think about the game? Justin: Wow That was a lot. You just gave me a lot. Okay a lot to digest right there I hate I at this point hate watching Chad Pennington quarterback the Jets. I Can't wait till the season's over Showcasing him at this point ridiculous because if there's no showcasing everyone knows what he is We know that the team That will most likely be interested in him would be Kansas City I can't understand any other team really being interested in him Minnesota and Miami I don't know I'm just gonna make the playoffs without champion to know I don't know either way, you know, I I can't stand watching the dinking and the dunking and the 81% pass completion for only 264 yards and 6 points. It's just despicable to me. I don't know what it is about... Maybe it just is his arm. He just can't throw the ball long. So it's hard to watch, that's what makes it boring. Oh, three yard throw. Oh, five yard completion. Oh, Thomas Jones for one. It's like, let's chew up as few yards as we can. It's so boring, it's just boring. I'd rather watch a guy throw the ball 30 down. 30 yards down the field incomplete then watch someone complete something for two yards Jake: So basically what you're saying is chicks dig the long ball Chicks dig the long ball. Okay, excellent I you know stand up players you look around and like oh man
06:01 Jake: I mean even on their side, we'll get the Tennessee Titans stats. I'm like Justin: No, they didn't do anything. We shut them down. Our defense played phenomenal. Yeah, it's great when they... Again, I mean, our defense has played really well the second half of the season. It's too bad our offense is completely shit to bed. Jake: Well, it's too bad that our defense doesn't show up in the first half of the season. This is second year in a row. Our defense shows up at the end of the season. Last year, we just happened to have won a couple games that made us, you know, in contention to the end of the season. But I'm sorry, but this is one of those things that we have to fix in the next. I want them to show up on the first game and then get bigger towards the end of the year, not show up, you know, after the bye and after man genies, you know, stuck his foot up their ass or whatever it is that's happening. I want that to start at the beginning of the season. Justin: So this show. They do like different things like. like they mesh in different ways after. Jake: Don't tell me you're gonna use the geling. Justin: That's weird. It is. It's like they look a whole lot different now. Jake: We'll never win. We'll never win a Super Bowl and never get in the playoffs if we can't have a consistently good defense. That's it. That's it. You can't be... 32nd and 29th in the league in this and 28th in the league in this. You cannot do that. You got to stay top 15, top 10 at least. Oh, they still can't stop the run, so regardless. Yeah, I mean, Lendell White, who weighs 420 pounds, I mean, he got 103 yards. He was running, so it's just painful. It is painful to watch, but you know what? We can do something about that pain. we can move right off the game that's what's pick a fool do as we decided a couple weeks ago uh... if we lose a game we can pick the fools first and then we pick the nights we win the game pick the night's thick first and then we pick the fools so uh... Justin: so let's go with the full from you first is that give me a full life alone and my school is not a person it's a line The offensive one. 6x and no running game equals offensive line gets the fool here. I don't know what they're going to do in the offseason. I was just watching one of those shows where Tannenbaum is on and they were talking about how they have 7 picks in the upcoming draft. Then 20 some odd million dollars into the cap to spend they have a lot of money and there are a couple of good offensive linemen out There on the market. I hope that they shore up one of those positions with one of those guys out there Alan Fannica from the sealers comes to mind Jake: Yeah, this there's some big talent on both and both lines and again We can talk about the offseason when it gets the offseason, but there's some well offensive line fool Okay, there's a big talent on both sense of defensive and offensive line that's in the free agency We'll see how many get signed and how many actually and make it out But if there's some money to be spent those are two good places to spend it. I'm sorry. I lied Mike Nugent You're my fool. You miss a field goal. You miss an extra point. By the way, what do we lose by? 4.
09:00 Jake: 4, yeah. So I'm not going to say that Mike Nugent lost the game for us, but if you miss the extra point, which should be automatic at this point, and you miss the field goal, and we lose by 4 points, and those exact same points, it just kills me. Justin: How did he miss the extra point? I completely missed that. No, he missed it. I missed it. I didn't see it. How did he miss it? I think he wide left. Oh, I mean what do you want? I mean was it blocked? Was it a bad snap? No, it missed, it missed to the left or right or whatever. So that's my fool. Jake: Let's give me a night. I'll start with my night. I'll give you a night for the day, for the game. I mean man not a lot, not a lot. It's pretty obvious looking at the stats and looking at who did what. the night again and he's got a lot of our nights next year better keep track but better on who we gave nights who gave a fool's to put a you know i should hundred fifty two yards and along a forty eight in the case the guys he's very very good and if you get the ball in his hands Um, maybe a little bit more down the field than Chad gets it. You know, if you get to him with three yards, he's only gonna be able to get five or six. He gave it to him maybe 12 yards down the line and he might be able to get more. But yeah, he definitely gets my night of the week. Who's yours? Justin: You fucker. You just went first to pick him, didn't you? Yeah, basically. Jake: Yeah, because there's no one else. Justin: Yeah, there really is absolutely no one else. You know, I'm looking at... Who's actually someone on the defensive line you could pick? Yeah, I'm not picking him. I'm gonna pick David Harris. Oh. Just because he's had such a good year in the defense, you know, in general has been... much better since he's been inserted into the lineup and uh... because he had a sack and forced him to fumble. Yeah he had a sack, forced him to fumble, a tackle, yeah good game, yeah he's all over the place he's he's what Vilma um should have been in this defense. Alright well that wraps up that game Jake: let's just put that one to bed painful as it was it seems like a million years ago and it and it probably was and maybe the season will feel like a million years ago and And just six months from now, but let's talk about let's talk about some other kingdoms because beyond the Jets just sucking this year There's some other interesting things going on Not to say the least is is really New England still having a perfect season Justin: But let's organize calling that one in the very beginning in the season really did it I think a lot of people said that he they would go undefeated Jake: how many people actually meant it and wrote it down. Justin: I think he may. Well, I mean he did it on his PTI show. I mean he was like, yeah, undefeated 19 year old. I mean on their over-under segment. I think they were talking about it. Well, let's back it up for a second. Regardless, they're going to win. They're going to. They're going to. Well, they're going to. Jake: Alright, so let's talk about it. Justin: I'm going to lose the jack. Jake: It sucks. In five ten years in 20 years are we look back at this team? Let's say they go totally defeated Let's say they win this football
12:00 Jake: Yeah, do we look back at this season as either jet fans or or? NFL fans and say this was the team that Went undefeated and we say the the year they cheated I mean is it that is that gonna be the cry they went undefeated in the year They cheated which rhymes nicely too, so maybe it maybe it fits I mean, are you going to look back and say, even if they won the 19-0, is someone going to be able to say, always and forever? I think they will. They were also caught for cheating in that same year. It's not going to be, that's it. They'll get the record. They'll get the thing. But they're cheaters. Justin: You know what's gonna be funny? If that's what comes of it, and that's like the big thing like they go 19-0 and Everyone, well they cheaters and cheaters. They'll just do it again next year. I'll just go back and just win next year every game. Okay, so you're saying it's actually more it's more to our advantage. Just leave them alone. Just let them win every game. Yeah, whatever, whatever, yeah, the best team ever, blah blah blah. Alright. Let's get over it. Let's get over it. Other big news, Jets, Patriots related, and now, Dolphins related. The tuna. Jake: The tuna goes to the fish. The tuna signed on, he was being courted by Atlanta, but didn't want to take over that shit show. So he took over even a worse shit show, which is taking over the Miami Dolphins. Justin: He has no real like... responsibility though yeah he is all the responsibility yeah but he has no like day to day responsibility he's the VP of football, football operations yeah but he's not really he doesn't really do anything he's not the general manager he's not the coach he gets to hire the general manager Jake: he gets to hire the coach Yeah, tell the coach what to do he gets to tell the general manager what to do he got to tell them exactly who? I it's an interesting role because you know as we know tuna as someone who you know won Super Bowls with the Giants and coach the Jets into the into the playoffs and coach that the Patriots to the Super Bowl and then got the at least the Cowboys to the to the playoffs. He's someone who's a winning coach and he certainly can make a difference and take a bad team and make them good. My definitely the way I feel though if I look at the like he's got a kind of downhill career path. If you look at where he started... quarter, you know, get into the Super Bowl and then kind of it looks like it just kind of goes down like actually sorry it was Giants Not was Giants Patriots Jets Cowboys But it you know, he never seemed to go back Justin: He he never he takes every single team that he goes to is like the Stalfins team They're just complete shit when he gets there They really are. He's usually the coach. He's usually the coach. That's the difference. That's the huge difference. Can he make a difference not doing all the day to day stuff?
15:02 Justin: Can he sit in an office and make a difference? Jake: There's two things I think that will help. There's two sides to that. One is if he's the coach, he usually only lasts three or four years. But maybe it's VP of operations. He would stay longer because it's not going to take the toll that being the coach was But will he have the difference will he be the difference on the team like he was as the coach also means will cam cam be gone will Muir will mu or Randy Muir be gone was that general manager? Yes of the Dolphins Justin: Yeah, why why would he be around what is he done first of all? He shouldn't because he's made some horrible mistakes uh... but uh... yeah i mean why would either of those guys be around why wouldn't parcels pull the whole thing up like you always does Jake: he should and he should add it'll be it'll be interesting to see him if he picks apart well i mean even i don't know if there's much left on the just to Justin: pick out uh... uh... about peal we're talking about pea only from uh... from patriots and i'm sure he'll go after some of those guys from kofflin staff in new york and Bell chick staff is new Jake: So, knowing nothing, knowing nothing other than the dolphins are going to end their season with a one win, maybe two, and that Bill Parcells is now coming in to run the dolphins from the top to the bottom, what do you think their next season will be? Just throw it out there, you can change it. We'll talk about it next August, but what do you think right now? How do you think they do next year? Justin: They will Double their their wins thick but two wins they will double it Jake: That that's a bold prediction. I'll say 100% increase. I think they'll get close to a winning not a winning Yeah, I think they'll get close to winning season. No, I don't think don't even do it a seven They'll be the seven first of all, they're gonna get a cakewalk season Justin: Cakewalk schedule had a cakewalk schedule this season. They were the last place team They will pull in they will pull in some really interesting stuff Jake: and I think he will do what he always does which is go defense defense defense and Big guys and I think that alone if he just focuses on defense and offensive line that alone will help everybody He will also probably pick a a quarterback out of someone else's pocket and put it there so they'll win more games you know it'll be in the six seven round. I think it'll be closer to five. Okay, well there you go. So that's kind of the news. You know, that's the other kingdom. So let's go on to talk about the game that's coming up. The game that for the first time in a long time I have the opportunity to go to but actually will not be going to because they change the time under our new flex rules. It was supposed to be an 8 o'clock game and I was scheduled to come back around 5 o'clock in the afternoon. I was going to make that game. They changed it to a 4 o'clock so I will not be making the game. But I will be finagling some cool TiVo action so I will not miss a beat. But um...
18:01 Jake: You know this is at the beginning of the season I looked at this game I'm like this is gonna be great one of these two teams And I think we said this one of these two teams is gonna be going to the playoffs And this is gonna be the game they need to win because in it's in our it's in the conference To get into the playoffs and here we are two teams playing who are so far away from the playoffs They can't they wherever they stand they can't even see the playoffs. They can't spell the playoffs So this is gonna be like I don't even know what other than the return of her who cares this is the most Know nothing who cares about game Larry Johnson's not even playing You know Chad's gonna be playing it's gonna be Chad against is he playing to show? Her that he's still good so you can go to KC. I mean the whole thing is just it's a crap game What do you think I mean what's? What do you think's gonna happen this game or does anybody even care? Justin: I don't, I, I care. I don't think nobody cares. I mean, it's, I, I, I don't even know what to think of the game. I mean, it is kind of meaningless. Do both teams have the same record? Do they have the same record as us? I don't even think so. I think they have one more win. I mean, I don't even know if I want to win the game or lose the game. Oh, you're Jake: gonna, we're gonna get into that conversation again. I guess it should have come up a ago but it's in this last couple games you play to win or do you Justin: or me and I always like to play to win rain does it do us any good to win not really I just don't think it doesn't need to lose it doesn't do us any good to win Jake: yeah yeah yeah does it's because with does is it shows your team that you have something to look forward to and it shows that you're not a complete waste of space. And I think the teams, the problem with it, there's a psychology to this game and to the players and that they can leave on a high note. It gives them something to build on for next year. If you end on a complete whooping or a beat down or you know, you just win the last couple games no matter how hard you tried at home, I think that kind of thing just gives you it For the one pick in the draft, three or four, four or five, that's not going to change their game next year. That's not going to make you a better team. But being a team that kind of had a little bit of it up at the end could show some little spark. I think that helps you more with your players, with your morale going into the offseason than winning that one game. So to me, I still rather win. Maybe if we're talking about the first draft not even believe in that because we're talking about the first pick the second pick I don't think there's any value in either of those I mean there's value in those picks, but they're so overblown so much money and they turn out to just you know 75% of time trying to be not worth it. I rather pick a little work I rather pick in the five to ten. I think there's better much better value in there look at the pics from last year that some of the value really came out. Adrian Pearson came in, I think,
21:00 Jake: fourth or fifth or something like that. I mean, there's some value in those picks. You don't pay them as much. You don't feel like you're just devoted everything in your life to them. So, it doesn't matter. Miami's already on the clock for the first pick. I just, I'd rather see the game win. I'm sorry, because it would make me, even make me feel better as a fan. They won a game, they beat her, I'm at home. Great. We won four. uh... games the year and just doesn't it does Justin: only the other iraq went so that's why i think you should win so we got some that's the game when we picked the score let's go on to some thrown pics Jake: uh... you know that could be a lot of what this game except for there isn't so let's let's talk about what's up all we think it's gonna happen Who do you think is going to win? Justin: I think we're going to win. 27-13. 27-13. Nice. Jake: Yeah, I don't think we're going to do much. Their defense is really horrible. At home, I think, yeah, we'll put up some points. You know, let's go for like a 20-13 game. Jets win 20-13. and Chad looks good and we trade him for a first-rounder. That's my hope. Great, yes. Well, if we have, you know, eight or nine picks in the next draft, we could actually do some damage. So we got some other... Let's talk about the New England game. So we got two sides of this. Basically New England's playing for nothing left in the perfect season and the Giants are playing for absolutely nothing at all because they're already in the playoffs. It sounds like the Giants are gonna rest their players and it sounds like New England's not Justin: So the Giants damn well better rest their players though. The line has is at 14 and a half New England. So Jake: What do you think I mean is that is it gonna be that kind of game or do you think that I think what the Giants should Justin: Do Yes, it's gonna be that. I think New England will win by a lot, but I think what the Giants should do is play the first half. Really play. Some of the guys on the team, and I've watched the Giants all year long, we both live in New York and I don't have direct duty, so I get every giant game. I'm talking about Flaxico first. Yeah it's boring! Flaxico first is really hurt, he's playing hurt and he needs to rest. He should not rest. Brandon Jacobs, he probably shouldn't get on the field. There's a couple of guys on the team that don't need to get on the field. But with that said, I think the defense should play. It's a good test to play New England. It's a great test going into the playoffs. Wouldn't you want to play one of the toughest or the best offense ever almost? Pretty much, they're being called the best offensive ever. They have record receiving and record. . you know, quarterbacking going on here. Yeah, they got... You'd want to play against that. It's practice almost. Jake: Yeah, I agree. I think you play them.
24:01 Jake: I think watching the Colts make that mistake a couple years ago, they just looked rusty and they got beat down because they looked rusty. Justin: Well, the goal is to get to the Super Bowl, right? And you might see him again, so you might want to work on something. Jake: He might listen. It's true. But do you want to put Eli out there, have him throw three picks, and look like, well you do because you don't like him because you're a Jet Fan. But as a Giant fan, would you want to put him out there and just make him look like shit? Maybe he just goes into the bi-week thinking I'm not my brother. Justin: He doesn't have a bi-week, first of all. Oh, he doesn't have a bi-week? That's right. Oh. he's playing he's got a play and i get a rhythm yes to stay in rhythm he hasn't been in the moment asked but this is a test you know bench it you don't see the guy cuz you're afraid he might not play well he's not rex grossman give me a give me a score for the new england jen came forty one ten forty one ten actually don't think they'll they'll run it high i think they will get up there Jake: and if they get up to a good comfortable lead. like a 21-3, I think they'll sit on it. So I let them come back, so I call it a 27-17. Justin: Because they're going to let them come back a little, but they won't let them win. And I think at that point, I think once they're up by two touchdowns, basically Giants are going to try to win. They'll put in their 400 pound quarterback and that'll just be it. We also have Buffalo at Philly. Again, I think both teams are completely out of the playoffs Jake: So they're just playing for pride there. I don't know if that really does anything but what do you think can happen there? Justin: I think both teams have a lot of pride. They do they do they do they're pretty proud teams. I Think Philly will win by three Jake: I don't think you may have to smack a... Well then we shouldn't get him. Well we're not going with some old quarterback who gets hurt every year. Go on. Justin: Anyway, we'll talk about this. Jake: Buffalo, Buffalo, I think Buffalo pulls it out. Let's give it to Big Buff. Buffalo pulls it off. Tatanka, they get there 23-17.
27:04 Jake: And then the last game, the Miami Dolphins, the tuna. comes back flips and flops flips and flops on the field and Miami takes on Cincinnati With again two teams not caring a lick about this game if any team is gonna pack it up though Since that is gonna pack it up. This is a team with like serious character issues. I think they will pack it up I think basically the dolphins are packing up too. All the things they're showcasing for, they're showcasing for the tuna. They're like, please tuna, don't cut me. So I think a couple of them are going to play out of their minds trying to say, listen, we still have value, keep us on your team because basically he's now watching with a different interest. And so I think they'll be playing a little bit different than they were earlier. Miami. me. Yeah, I don't think Miami can win this game, but they'll score some points. You know, let's make it like a 13, and Cincinnati will get up on them and stay up on them. 13-24. Cincinnati wins. What do you think? Justin: Oh, wow, after all that I thought you were going to actually say Miami is going to win. What am I, stupid? I'm going to say Miami is going to win. Oh yeah, I think Miami actually wants to win and Cincinnati doesn't give a shit. So 17-13. Jake: Alright, not bad, not bad at all. And I think, ladies and gentlemen of the jury for 2007, that's about it for our podcast. As always, want to send us an email, send it to podcastatjetkingdom.com, come by, stop by the forums at www.jetkingdom.com. Or, as you can always call us at 206-984-3473, leave us a voicemail and we'll talk about it on the podcast and let you know or answer your question. Other than that, have a very, very happy holidays. If you haven't already had all of them, some people are going up to celebrate their second holiday this weekend, like me. Or have a very merry new year. We will talk on... Again, next week, the podcast will continue. Do not fret. Justin, you have any last moments, last thoughts, last clarity? Nope. Already, always adding the color to the commentary there. Justin: Thanks, Justin. Sorry, they call me the best in the business. You have a happy rest of your holidays and a very... Jake: Merry New Year or Happy New Year and as always let's go Jets!