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Machine transcript generated in 2026 by Grok Bot from the episode audio (Whisper small.en + sherpa-onnx speaker diarization). Speakers labeled Opening / Jake / Justin. Timestamps about every three minutes. Diarization note: HOST_LOCK: after Opening, host/welcome voice = Jake; other = Justin; host-welcome cluster=0 @ 13.0s → Jake; other-primary cluster=1 → Justin; Justin name in host line kept on Jake (HOST_LOCK); Jason-ref Jake cluster 0 sim=0.68.

00:12 Jake: This is the Jet Kingdom Podcast for Thursday, December 13, 2007, episode number 17. Welcome back, Alk. Well, welcome to Jet Kingdom Podcast. This is the 17th episode of the podcast, as it were, and I, as always, am Jake, and on the other side of the digital aisle we have... As always, this is Justin. Hey, Justin, how are you doing? I'm pretty impressed we made it to 17. That is. It's almost a season. I guess it would be a season. Justin: It'd be pretty impressive that we'd complete this whole season. Jake: In the light of the season that we're having, it would be very impressive that we complete. It'd be impressive if people were actually listening at the end of the season to a team that's 3-10. Wow are people listening? Yes, they are so let's jump right into it Let's talk about we've got a special special show This week because we're gonna start off with the normal just the two of us Jake and Justin talking about the jeds which is J cubed I think but we are gonna bring back although painfully and harshly We're gonna bring back Jeremy aka alc into the conversation later on and we'll get to him, talk to him about things like the Jets-Patriots matchup. But right now, let's get right into the game that was the Cleveland Browns versus the New York Jets, which, you know, this is a game I think we both thought we could win going into it. It looked like a winnable game. the Browns actually were playing. probably better than we thought they were. They got a brand new quarterback who came out of nowhere, playing really well. They got a lot of weapons on the offensive side, had a really bad defense. And for the most part, the Jets stuck it in there. They kind of, they were close, you know. Kept the first quarter, 0-0, second quarter. 7-3 and then you know kind of kind of lost lost it as the as the quarters went on in the fourth quarter We made these crazy, you know tricks and plays and things that try to get back into it But in the end lost 24 18 So the Jets are now you know 3 and 10 you know this game was kind of atypical of Well, or maybe totally typical of the season we're having in that a game that we go up against an opponent that we can win against. We don't do anything to get blown out, but we just in the end can't get enough together.

03:02 Jake: The defense can't stop a run when they need to stop. Some plays are called when... Maybe the play shouldn't have been called and we just can't seem to kind of make that final stop, that final play that would put us over the top. Chad couldn't get it done when he was playing and it looks like Kellen can't get it done when he's playing in that final couple plays. Again, the weapons are depleted as much as they were. Brutal loss. I was there in the cold, in the rain. I was one of the last five people in the stadium. Trust me, I looked around. There were five people. I was actually with my brother-in-law and his girlfriend who both were Browns fans. And so at one point towards... Justin: That must have been so much fun. Jake: Yeah, it was fun. It was actually a great game in terms of excitement. I did have to separate myself from them towards the end there. Actually, it was pouring rain. There was nobody left in the stadium. So I walked down my aisle, at least three sections over. So I didn't have to be near them. And I was pacing back and forth like a leopard in a cage and just watching the game. And it was fun. I mean, it was a fun game to like be at. And we got poured on in the fourth quarter cold rain. Justin: You know what someone's thinking right now? What? They're thinking that they were one of those other five people and they're listening as they're, they're nutty jet fans and they're that nutty. And we love you for it. Let's think of this. And they're like That's that fucker walking back and forth up there. I saw him from the mezzanine, I was looking up in the cheapies, and there he was. Damn. Yep, that's him. Jake: So that was the game. What did you think? What stuck out of you about this game? Justin: interesting about this game is I'm looking at statistics afterwards and Statistically, I don't think we really lost this game. I'm looking at it, and like, if I didn't watch the game and you didn't show me the final score and I just looked at the stat sheet, individual stats and team stats, I would have guessed the Jets won. Our quarterback had a decent enough game, just as good, you know, 100 more yards. I know he turned the ball over a couple of times, but yeah. Jake: I have to stop you right there because I'm looking at the stats. hopefully the same stats you're looking at. And I'm looking at Derek Anderson through two touchdowns, one interception. Our quarterback through zero touchdowns, two interceptions. Right there, if you showed me that, even Peyton and Brady, it doesn't matter who those two quarterbacks are. I'm going to go, the person who threw the two touchdowns and the one interception, and Justin: the person who threw the zero touchdowns. Yeah, but he ran for one. So that makes up for that. I mean, he did a count. or a touchdown that's true but so it's it's two touchdowns one interception okay one touchdown two interceptions anyway that's one individual uh that's one individual position matchup yeah but i'm looking at more overall team stats we had to ball longer than they did we you know we had more yards than they did we averaged more yards

06:04 Justin: for play than they did. I mean, we... You almost want to say we outplayed them. I mean we had a runner go for 100 yards We had a receiver go for 100 yards We had all these things going on and again, like you said, we can't make the play Jake: To win the game right and it's not even can't make the play. It's can't stop the play Justin: I mean, there's this we're in we put ourselves in position to make a play at the end of the game And not only do we not make a play that we need to make, we completely blow it. We allow him to score a touchdown, talking about the third and one or third and two, third and four, even whatever it was. And Jamal Lewis gets the ball, he gets hit, but bounces off whoever hit him, and just runs over three jets and into the end zone. Game over. Jake: There's a couple things that really poke through this game that I want to talk about. And as I watch the recap on the iTunes recap, which I love and which you have to get next season because it is a great way to go back and kind of get a glimpse of what happened. And there's a couple plays This is not an indicator of my fool for the week, but he was close. There's a couple plays where Thomas Jones doesn't make the play. Here's the two plays. One was he broke a play down to the one yard line. He was literally within feet of making that touchdown. So he didn't make it, right? He got tackled. Okay, that's fine. But then there was another one where fourth and one on the – no, I think we were third one on the on the goal line, which we ended up did making, we actually made the touch town with a quarterback sneak, but it's his job as a running back to make those plays. Like if you bust through and you've got a 20-yard run, like, and you're one foot away from the touch... from the end zone, you gotta make that play. If you're the running back, you have to make that play. And if you're at fourth and one or one yard, one on the one yard line, we have to have that guy make that play. And- Justin: You know what's even worse about it? I don't know. What's worse than that? Well, there are things that are worse than, you know, breaking off a 20 yard run and getting down to the one and not scoring and then eventually scoring. He does. Don't you? The worst than that is when you're first in goal on the one and you hand the ball off and you have a hole and you Start a step through the hole and don't make the touchdown and then on second and goal from the one you get the ball And you lose two yards right that's worse, and then you don't end up scoring the touchdown There's a reason he only has You know one touchdown on the season. He's not a goal line back. I posted on the forum the other

09:02 Justin: day, I want Kevin Barlow back for those one yard runs. He was effective at that and I think I said to you the other day that we're missing... Houston Cedric Houston. Yeah Because he was effective at doing those little you know short situational runs Jake: We don't have a guy that can just pound a yard, but that's the guy we thought we got I mean no that's not true Justin: Yes, it's not what he ever was Jake: Stutter step kind of guy He was the well then I then I've been you know Wamboozled or something because when we have that when we sign a guy We have Leon Washington in there who can run the ball make the plays make the slashes, you know Get get those get out in space and move Which is one kind of runner and then you have then you need the other kind of runner that can that can go through The hole that can make that one yard that you can always depend on You know, I don't want to make the comparison, but the Curtis Martin kind of guy. Curtis Martin didn't break a lot of 20 yard plays, 30 yard plays. In fact, he broke very few of them. And towards the end of his career, he broke even less and less. And it was one of the complaints about him. But he would always get two to three yards. And two to three yards isn't going to win a game, but he would get it. And God, if you needed him to get it, he would get those yards. And this guy, he's not. doing it. He's not getting those yards. Like if you need those yards, he's not getting it. And even to the point where we don't trust him to get it, you know, I'll go back to, I don't know, week three when we're, remember it was the Eagles and we're third in, third in something. No, fourth in something. Instead of, fourth and one from like the 20. Instead of just trying to get the one yard to get the, to get the, the first down. We threw the ball into the end zone. Remember that play? Yes. And I was outraged about it. And maybe I just think we've made a mistake. And I don't want to talk about draft now because it pisses me off that we have to be talking about the draft towards the end of the season. Not talking about like, you know, how we're going to do in the playoffs. But if we're not really considering... You know getting a game changing and I think that's the thing that I'm not saying at Tom Thomas Jones He's not a game changing back. I need a game changing back. We need someone who who Justin: So does I got news for you? So it's 32 teams. Yeah, so does 30 31 other teams Everyone needs a game changing back. Well some of them have them. Some of them do, some of them don't. Some of them deploy the two headed running scheme and it works just fine for some teams and others don't even need to look at Denver. They don't need a running back, they just run. Jake: Well, they have a game-changing offensive line, which again, we can't get away from that and we can't say that our offensive line is doing great. They're not and they're clearly not dominating when they should be dominating.

12:03 Jake: So that would be something else too. With a running back, it's always tough to tell. Is it the offensive line or is it the running back? You put an average running back between. Behind a great offensive line. He'll look like a star you put LT behind behind the sieve of a Arizona Cardinals Run offensive line and he's gonna look like he's gonna quite crap Justin: So it's not even just the talent level or even the size or anything. It's it's also Scheming on the line. I mean who knows? who even knows who's no one hears of the offensive line coaches or how much attention Schottenheimer pays to the offensive line play I mean who knows who really knows how you know if that's a problem I mean it's not something that's that you would know about you just blame Schottenheimer Well, hopefully... He's just not an offensive line specialist. He sure doesn't look like one. He's a... Twig. Well, we have an offensive line coach, so hopefully... Well, that's what I mean, but who knows who that is? He might be an idiot. Who knows? Obviously, Denver has a very good one, right? Yeah. No, that's true. Like, you would say, right? You would say Denver's offensive line coach is pretty goddamn good. KC. KC's another one. Yeah, I mean, you would... You always have a very good offensive line. Yeah. You would assume that it's been the same offensive line coach for Denver all these years with Shanahan. I mean, I try and. It's like Westoff. We give Westoff a lot of credit for his special teams, right? Yeah. So that's interesting, because you don't know very many special teams coach's names around the league. I mean, we know him because he's a Jets coach. But I watch every giant game, and I couldn't name the giant special teams coach. That's because their special teams don't do anything. Jake: That's true. I, again, I, this game frustrates me. Not because we lost, I mean, because at the- Little rat hole there, huh? Well, yeah, that was a good rat hole. Not bad. We could call it the moat. OK. Get it? Little moat. Moat. I get it. I don't know if anyone else will, but- That's OK. Justin: This isn't for anybody else. It's for us. Jake: And that's the best take of the night. It's not just a loss because being 3-10 versus 3-10, I'm not worried about draft picks at this point. We've all said our draft pick thing and the podcast after the season ends, which is only three weeks, we can talk about draft and what we feel about it. It's just that we have a chance. It's almost better in some ways you get blown out because it doesn't make you feel like you lost the game. It makes you feel like you just weren't even there to compete. When you're there to compete and you get so close, it's even more painful. Like ask, ask? Well, I hate bringing up my wife in every episode, but ask my wife about the Monday Night Miracle on the metallands and It kills her not because they lost, although they lost,

15:02 Jake: but that how they lost, that they were so ahead and that they had a chance and they were dominating and they were going to win the game and then it came down and Vinny threw the three touchdowns and all that stuff in the kick in the end with the Hall, that's what kills her. This is that kind of game. We had a spark at the end. We had a chance. There was some plays made, some calls made. And actually this is. Okay. Justin: We actually yeah, let's get into actually the game the end of the game Jake: Let's let's go over that because you have I I do have a different I happen to think that explain the situation Okay, I'll explain the whole and then situation and then why you think it was a good decision. Okay, so I mean Justin: It was all predicated on a couple of things happening. The Jets were down 17-6 with, you know, under four minutes to go. Correct. And they drove down the field and Kellen Clemens ran the ball in for a one-yard touchdown on the goal line. Good drive, getting down the field very quickly. That made the score 17-12. At that point, they had to go for two. And here's where. So here's where. Jake: Do you agree with it? Go for two? Absolutely. Yeah, go for two. I agree. You have to go. Justin: There's under three minutes left. You have a chance to get. What's the difference if you miss the two or make a field goal? Either way, you have to go for a touchdown. Jake: Well, I'm down four or down five you make right right if you if you get the two you can go down hit a three-pointer Justin: All right, if you tied it to you what I'm saying is if you make it to your down three Which is great. I miss the two you're down five, but if you make a field goal you're down four Jake: What's the difference right? So we're down way. I have to make sweet at that point. We were Justin: 1712 1712 we go for two and here's where you can complain a little bit and say what the fuck are we throwing a fade pass to Chris Baker in the end zone? I've never seen them run that play before. I mean, why run a play like that? That's ridiculous. Jake: Well, they have run the fade pass into the end zone. Justin: Yeah, but not to Chris Baker. I've never seen them run a play like that for Chris Baker. Why not? I don't know. Do something else. The fade never works. It doesn't seem to work for us unless you have Randy Moss or Terrell Owens. You're not. work in that play. Jake: Or unless you have Chad Penn. Chad Penn throws that kind of thing very well. More on the receiver. The touch pass. He's good at the touch pass. I'm not asking for Chad to come back. I'm saying it's the touch pass. He might have made that. But a big running back and a big offensive line, you punch that in. Justin: You don't even worry about that. Either way. Yeah. Jet's now down 17-12. Kicking on it. Onside kick. it. Great kick by Nugent great great great play by Brad Smith on that play They kicked the high on side kick where it takes the short hop right off the right off the tee and bounces really high and

18:00 Justin: Like five or six jets run down the field as fast as they can and run smack right into the line and basically create a blocking scheme and Brad Smith jumped over them and like basically caught the ball, dropped it but Castle picked it up and the jets they were on their way, they get stopped. But, they managed to... Jake: We hit the two minute warning, we get stopped at... It gets stopped at like... It's first in ten Thomas Jones takes a rush, nothing. Second in ten Thomas Jones... sorry, second in ten it's a... it's a Inkaboo Passage at Cottree. Third in ten, it's a... it's a pass to Clemens. I'm sorry Clemens passes to Lee in Washington nothing so now you're fourth and ten fourth and ten Justin: So let's frame this fourth and ten you're down four and you still have your timeouts remaining I think they had all three at the time if not two But I believe they had I think we had three yeah, so at this point you can still you know, stop the clock. So they kick the field goal. 4th and 10, what are the odds you're gonna make it? Let's kick the 38 yard field goal, get down 2, and we just recovered an onside kick, let's try it again. So I like this, we'll try it all again. We go down 7, Nuge does his job, go down 17, 15, we have all three timeouts. who cares it's under two minutes but we could stop the clock we stop cleveland this is where i like the strategy Jake: we've got ourselves in a position hold on hold on so here's what most people have a problem you've you've you've put everything back in your position of your of your clemens of of calum clemens you're down within their you know their side of the field of their side of the field you have enough time outs to stop them if you want to why not at that point At that point, at- at 1712, right, you always need to touch down. Why not at that point just kick it away or try the first... Wait, wait, wait, kick it away. So not kicking away, sorry. Why not just try, four and 10, try to throw the ball, get the first down. If you don't get the first down, they're down at their 30 yard line and you get the three timeouts and you can stop them. So why not just try at that point to stop them? Justin: because you have the opportunity to go down two without wasting any more time off the clock and then try the on-site kick again and who cares they have the ball either way well yeah but they they would have if you kick it they have the ball either way and you have your three timeouts you stop them you get the ball back it's as simple as that. I'd rather be down two than be down four with the ball back Okay, all right, it's your opinion keep going or I'd rather be down two than be down five with the ball back Would you not either way? Jake: I'd rather give them the ball down 20 and then try to stop them immediately right there cuz even even so even if you make Justin: That fourth and tenth. Well, if you make the person down here you're golden Even it why are you golden you're still down you still have to score touchdown

21:01 Justin: Yeah, but then you're down have to have to play and you can score touchdown. Yes, you still have to actually score it now They've not scored a touchdown a lot of times What they did was put themselves in a position to be down to with their three timeouts in the pocket So they can they can now try the onside kick again, which they were just successful on, and attempt... hey, if they recover that, then they're really golden. Now they have timeouts and they can kick a field, and they Jake: gave 15 yards, they win the game. Here's what I want though. I want a stat that says the percentage of onside kicks that are complete double, twice in a row. And I bet you that the first time it's got a... I think actually I've heard it's about a 45-35% chance, but on the second time, I... I just got to imagine that if you try that again, they know what's coming more so than they knew what's coming the first time, and the chance of doing it twice in a row is very, very slim. Keep going. Keep going. Justin: Anyway, so the Jets put themselves in a pretty decent position, what I thought was a decent position and you know they had the timeouts. and they gave the ball over at a minute 43 and they could have stopped them with about a minute 15 left had the ball back, but they let Jamal Lewis run for a 31 yard gain and touchdown. Basically they let them move the ball when what they really needed was a 3-and-out and if they would have gotten a 3-and-out I'm pretty convinced Bad they could have won the game with the field goal and they could have ended up winning the game 1817 Jake: Okay, so I I disagree with that play the rest of it's kind of irrelevant and he comes back and forth I mean you like that you like the fact that they That man trying to extend the game. I agree send game great idea in concept I think when you're down at that point you got the rookie quarterback you're three and ten Sorry three nine. I say go for it fourth and ten. Let your defense try to stop them. You got the three timeouts That's the time to make the stand Anyway, they lost the game. Let's go on because we got out in we got out in the wings. He's waiting for us Is he like itching? So Man I will just break it out Justin: Go take a couple shots or something. Jake: So, let's talk about, let's get our fools. Let's get our fools and knights. Do knights and fools before we get out, Con? Yeah, let's get knights and fools and then we'll bring in an elk and we'll talk about the rest of all this stuff. Justin: All right. Do you want to go first? Jake: Yeah, sure. I'll give you, you know what? I'll give you both. And I will see you next time. and then then you can go for your both. I'm gonna give you both. We're just switching it up because we're crazy like that. Justin: Wow, that is pretty nuts, you know. Jake: Yeah, so, uh, the fool... I'm gonna do a fool first because we lost the game.

24:01 Jake: Maybe we'll make that a precedent. Um, the fool, I think... It's got to be to me the defensive line. And because there's two things, there's two plays, obviously the one play that I think that, not two plays, but two things. One was the play which was that play, right? Letting Jamal Lewis walk through. And it just, you know, when the guys got to him in the secondary, they were trying to strip him. and If you watch the play they were just like punching him in whatever they were just doing everything because they stripped him at that point we would have been golden. So but that's not the golden let's just say in better shape. We would have been better shape. We would have had the ball. They you know the defensive line even for that play you can't give someone a fool for that play but here's the thing I will what did they do to Derek Anderson? That's the question to you. I don't know nothing nothing they didn't do anything there. They never got the pressure on him They never did anything to him and because their first round Justin: Left tackle is better than our first round left tackle and both picked at four, right? I think so. Yeah Jake: So anyway, that's my fool my night It's it's an easy night because four weeks in a row You get a pick four weeks in a row Straight you're Kerry Rhodes. You're the night. I speak. Yeah, you're the night. Well, you wasn't I by by me Wow He's earning his Night shit, so I will say that's my night. That's my fool Let's get yours and let's get out gone here and let's pewd down Justin: I'll go click my fool is Thomas Jones For reasons that you said earlier and reasons that I said earlier first and second down on the one from the goal line, get the fucking touchdown, right? Giving you the ball or giving you the opportunity, make something of it. My my night is not really for great play more for just heroism alone. Lavernius Coles. Seven huge catches every catch he made was big I don't have the statistic in front of me But I imagine of those seven catches at least five were for first downs Yeah, and he was limping after every catch you could just see he was just barely getting off the field So the verniest calls for making big catches leading the team and receptions for the game more of a session receiver with coals kind of being hampered and Kautry taking over it. It's the big time playmaker receiver role this week, but Kols gets my night this week. Jake: Right now it's time to welcome in our Patriots correspondent Jeremy aka Elk. Justin: Correspondent, I like that. That's very official. Jake: We could say whipping boy, but of course we're the ones being whipped so that's not gonna be so well. Yeah, that's true.

27:11 Jake: and We do a review of the game that was which we just did. Then we also talk about in other kingdoms which are sort of talking about the other, what else is happening in the NFL which we're going to invite you in so we can get your opinion on. Then we go on to talk about the game that's coming up which obviously you're going to have some interesting opinion on. And then we pick Which we call the throne picks? th are O and e picks we We pick the AFC e AFC e schemes so while you're while you're sitting there, you know scratching your three rings Think about what you would pick for these games because we're gonna ask you as well, so We're going to throw out some sort of topics on the NFL in our other kingdom segment and then we'll go on to the rest. For all you listening along, I know it sounds like I'm leading Jeremy along, but that's just the way we roll. I think there's two things we should talk about in other kingdoms. It doesn't matter. Let's go alphabetically. Let's talk about the Atlantic Falcons. I guess they're both the Atlantic Falcons. Let's talk about Patrino leaving. thing. Actually, let's talk about Vic first because I think that happened first. Let's talk about Michael Vic and what happened there. I said it when this first came out, it's just sad, sad on so many levels to watch someone who is so high up come so far down. I'm actually very happy with what happened in terms of the court case and that he was put away for 23 months and probably served about 20. Thank you very much. I think the thing that's, there's a lot of comparisons to him and Leonard Little and Lewis who are both involved in murder and manslaughter. I think the difference here is he kind of funded it and it wasn't a one time lapse of judgment. You know, you get in the car drunk and you kill somebody, that's a bad thing. but it's a lapse of judgment on a one-time level. He funded... this thing he put money into heat you know he made months of lapse of judgment so just let's go out there first jeremy since you're the newbie on the one what do you think like do you think it was fair to see this too much or do you think you ever on the nfl again well i was i mean i was happy to see him get sentenced uh... Justin: i do think twenty three months might be a little extreme uh... i don't think if it was a Anyone but a NFL player or celebrity, it probably wouldn't have been as bad. So I think they were just trying to make a point. You think you got more because he's a celebrity? Yeah, I do. Well, I think they were just really trying to make a point with this one, and it was a big name. So they just wanted to make a statement, I think. Jake: So you think, you're saying he should have gotten less. Do you think he'll be playing back in the NFL ever again? Yeah, I think he'll be back.

30:01 Justin: I think they said when he gets out, he's... I think he's still gonna be under 30 years old. So I think he'll be just 30 years old. Yeah Yeah, so I think I mean it'll take him a while to get back into the swing of things But I'll bet he could get a couple more years in before that's that's if he doesn't eat too much fried chicken and french Oh, yeah In prison. Yeah, that was great Justin what do you think I think he'll be back in the NFL for certain and do you think you should be? and Yeah, is he a big name? Yeah, does he sell tickets? Yeah, so he'll be in the NFL again. Someone will take a flyer on him. Team Net, you know, I would imagine the Raiders, maybe. Just the Raiders come to mind. I like that. Jake: Yeah, and then the Patriots, because they always take a second chance on a loser like Moss. Justin: You know what, he would turn into an all-pro cornerback for the Patriots. Jake: Yeah, he probably would. Okay, so just a second question. Should Goodell give him extra, Roger Goodell, the NFL commissioner, should he give him extra fines or a suspension on top of his two years? I'll go with you Justin first. Justin: Ooh, you're a good moderator. Um, no, I actually, you know, because this is just like a sentencing, so it really doesn't have much to do with the NFL at all. I mean, the NFL could potentially just say you're suspended for a year, but they'll be sitting in jail for a year and a half. So I don't, I don't really think so. I think Goodell could just say that's what, you know, the justice system thought was, was right. and I'll just... Jake: Adhere to that because you know in other certain circumstances He's actually put on top of it and he's suspended people on top of what they've done in jail. So Jeremy, what do you think? Justin: I kind of agree. I mean, I think this sentence is probably punishment enough, but on the other hand Godel's I mean He's proven. He's didn't take any crap. I mean he's gonna I'm sure he'll probably lay down a suspension once he does get back Jake: Yeah, I will, I'm not going to agree with both of you, but I guess I felt that if he was going to serve a year, which is they all talking about, he's going to serve a year. My feeling was just, I don't know, somewhere deep down in my own little political or judicial mind I thought he should serve a year in prison and then he should serve a year of suspension from the NFL. But in that he's going to serve two years and really won't be able to come back into the NFL until 2010. I feel like that's enough. You got what you didn't pay for. He's going to lose every bit of his dignity. He's going to jail for at least 20 months. He's going to come back, be vilified. He's going to lose millions of dollars. The Atlanta Falcons are going after tons of money off of him. Obviously every deal he's ever done, he's selling both of his houses.

33:03 Jake: He's going to lose a lot of money. So I think there's you know, he's paid a debt and I am one I think for certain things in your life, not all things, certain things in your life, you should be able to pay your debt and come back to society. Not that I want him on my team, but if I think that he should be after two years in jail, he should be able to come back and at least try to get on the NFL somewhere. I think it was interesting, Kecheon Johnson on Sunday night countdown, obviously, talked about maybe Monday night. money they can talk about he might come back as as a running back or as a wide receiver or as or as a corner or something like that he might not come back as a quarterback which i thought was interesting so the other thing obviously in in other kingdoms uh talking about the Atlanta Falcons is uh is their head coach taking off after you know He's had enough. So Petrina has had, he signed a 10 year thing with Louisville, which he then dumps to come to Atlanta Falcons, signs five years of the Atlanta Falcons. Then after, you know, oh good 13, whatever it is, 14, 15 games, decides he's going to dump off and then go off to, was it the Razorbacks, Arkansas? So here's the thing. can you at would how would you trust this person why would you be the third person line to sign into a contract in like oh yeah i think you'll stick to my contract uh... what do you think it gerry me as a as just as if if bill were to do this to you would you be a little bit of pissed off Justin: how definitely having this is not me that's a disgrace i mean he's just following savans lead it looks like but yeah i don't know how you You can trust a guy like that. Jake: With that kind of track record hey, stay been at least saving for all his crap at least stayed for two years Yeah, that's true. He did give it a little longer to two full years. This guy didn't even fit an entire year Granted he was thrown into Probably the biggest shit show ever when it comes to comes to an NFL team I mean has any other team gone through what kind of what they've gone through in terms of the court cases and all that I don't think so but still just and we think it is just this guy not to be trusted ever again in how would you put your kids believe you have any to have kids and never have a chance but if you would say yeah i can't i hope your girlfriend is listed if you would say that you know hey because what they do is they come to my team come to my school play for me your your young kids my school come play for me but How could you say it to a kid and him believe you for more than five seconds? Justin: Let me let me tell you something that I learned in college when I when I was in coaching sports This is a class I took and I actually got credit for The guy who taught the course actually taught us this when you have a better opportunity take it and If you coach in in a place for a year and you make yourself look great at that place

36:05 Justin: For that year and someone bigger and better comes calling See ya take it and I cannot agree with what What patrino did by quitting in the middle of this season, but? Clearly that was a shit situation he was in and he had a better opportunity ahead I mean he could have so easily just stuck it out and just stayed for three more weeks I don't know what what that's all about. I mean I Maybe there's something we don't know but but that's ridiculous Jake: Yeah, I agree that in some situations you should always take something more in your life and pursue other opportunities. When you sign on to a contract, there has to be something about signing a contract and sticking with a contract. Even if the five-year contract is sticking within one fifth of it, it's just ridiculous. He dumped that team as fast as he was there. I think it's pretty despicable and I also think that what are we saying to the youth of the NFL and to the people in college. Basically saying contracts don't matter, what you say doesn't matter, what team you want to be on if you're T.O., one year you're crying to be on the Eagles and putting up a huge fight because you don't want to go to Baltimore. and then two years later you want to get off you know eagles and go somewhere else mean it just doesn't say the anybody makes a commitment in the nf l and i know it's great parity and maybe great great news but it it's sickening although i could care less about the hell and about guns it's it's sickening that's happening um... and you know we had a coach for twenty four hours once uh... justin that you'll remember i think it's been with bill something and he had made a commitment to be the coach of the New York Jets and left on a little train up to Boston and I'm not so sure how I would have been happy with that choice which brings us right to let's talk about, as painful it is, let's talk about the Justin: I have some questions for Jeremy. Alright, let's look already some questions about the pats go for give him some questions Let's see first of all first of all I I don't have too many patriot fan friends actually only have one And I don't even want to talk to him Cuz he's also a Red Sox fan, and I just don't need to talk to these people right now since 2001 That's all. No, he grew up in mass and he's you know, like 40 some odd years old and he's been a mess Mass hole person. Yes for a while Tell me about the spygate controversy from the Patriots perspective because all I've heard is, you know The national scene on ESPN and the local stuff here in New York But give me the Patriots fans in the the New England perspective on it Well, I'm not really sure. Right now, no one's making too big of a deal of it.

39:01 Justin: Just like the team, they just looked at it as a motivation. I mean, got them fired up and you can kind of see where it's led them, I think. Jake: Right now, it's not... Did you see this cheating, though? Do you think it's cheating? Um... I guess, yeah, I mean, it is cheating. Justin: It's just, I mean, I don't know if they did it before this season. I mean, what they did this year, I mean, they didn't benefit from it because they were caught before they were even able to use it. But I mean, if it was used in the seasons before this, then yeah, I mean, it would Jake: definitely be cheating. So, do you think that... Do you think that Bill Belichick and the Patriots were fined enough? Do you think that was a fair fine or should have been more? I mean losing your first round draft pick, when it will probably end up being less, they'll probably pick higher than the Jets this year because of San Francisco. Do you think that was fair or do you think they should have been hit a little bit harder than that? Just maybe had Bill Belichick suspended? Well, I mean, I think the finity... Justin: they find him was, I mean that was pretty significant. I don't remember for sure. I think that's one of the biggest fines Jake: they've ever laid down. So, I mean I definitely think that was fair. Yeah, except for the guy down in Dallas who had HGH, the existing coach, he was using some HGH which isn't even, it wasn't certainly breaking the rules of the NFL for a coach. And they suspended him for three games. Justin: Yeah, that is true. I don't know other than that. I mean they had the rules for the drug policy in place and something like this Was covered an unprecedented deal. I think and well yeah, that's that's a good point out There was no precedent for anything like this in the past There's nothing to really go by so they were kind of flying by to see their pants and to suspend a headcoaches Jake: You know rather harsh except for that wait a second. We're forgetting that in the in the summer there Godel went to every camp or went to you know said to the NFL and the owners if you do anything that is considered You know an unfair advantage against another team during this season. I'm gonna come down hard on you And so I think he came down pretty hard really you're Justin you're it's this hard. This is justin or Jeremy talking Justin: Oh, it's justin. I know I I I kind of I I wish that they could have said you guys have two first round picks We're gonna take the the one that's the better pick away from you but they can't do that. Why not? I don't know. They can do whatever they want. I guess they can. They're like the Gestapo, but still, I don't know. I think they should have suspended him, Jake: not for like 10 games or whatever, but it should have been a game at least. The fine is fine, $500,000, whatever. You know that Robert Kraft wrote him a check the next day for that. Taking away a pick that is conditional on whether you get the playoffs, that's kind of with... I think suspending would have been really showing the NFL and showing the players and showing the fans of the game that there's a real certainty.

42:01 Jake: Not that it would have changed the outcome of that game, but it would have been a big moment to see a head coach not be on the sidelines because he was suspended for doing something that was against the rules. I think that would have been a better thing. But we can move on now. uh... because we have a game coming up and uh... you know there's there's there's a game so here's the deal did their twenty four and a half point underdogs it's like the biggest spread ever you know whatever whatever the jets are just not gonna win this game at all i want you to gerry put yourself in jet fans shoes in the spent half of the spent half of the half your time on a jet most are not half you've been ninety five percent of your time at jets five forms Give me the three ways, give me the three things a Jets can do to win this game. Are there really? Justin: Do you have any players that are good sharpshooters? If you get someone to take Brady out, I mean, that's the problem. If we played for the Patriots, that's... Jake: that would be our strategy to take him we could take out some uh... some shotgun seriously do this and nothing we can do is there no way because clearly this been some games we use one by the you know the hair your change in chin Justin: i mean i know what we could do i know we could do we could have to tell come down right away and say that there's a mandate that the Patriots are not allowed to pass the ball against the Jets this week. That's it. No passing. It'll be all kicking and running by the Patriots. Oh, I say just go for it and say no kicking either. No kicking either? The only thing you're allowed to do is pass backwards so you can lateral. Jake: Seriously, come on Jeremy, give me something. Give us a ray of hope. Tell us something that you see as a weakness in the Patriots. That's it. That's what I want you to tell me. Justin: Well, I mean their biggest weakness so far has been their, well, they've shown weaknesses in both aspects of the defense. I mean, the Eagles tore them up in the passing game and then the Ravens, I mean they just ran it right down our throats. So... I mean, I think it's been proven that either way we can be, I mean, you can throw the ball on us and you can run it on us. So on the passing game, I mean, if they're going to want to go with the middle of the field, I mean, we definitely cover the sidelines a lot. Jake: Do you think the weather's going to be a factor? There's apparently a Northeastern coming into Foxborough there. and maybe that again even in the Pittsburgh Miami game that was certainly an equal fire or you know for the two teams. He was a crappy team and a good team and those teams you know barely scored three points within the entire game. Do you think that it's possible that if there were snow coming down and you know it was rainy and sloshy and whatever that that would benefit the Jets in any way. Justin: Not at all. Yeah, I don't know if it's gonna benefit them. I mean, it's definitely gonna slow down both teams But I think then the Patriots will just go to a shorter passing game I mean They'll just throw the ball to Welker and Stallworth non-stop and let them do what they can with it

45:02 Justin: So so you say Jake the I've actually seen the statistic on this and you're not going to be happy about it. When it's snowing, the pats are 9-0 in Foxboro, 6-0 since O2, so they don't lose when it snows up there. Jake: Okay, so if we go out and we... I don't think we want it to snow. If we go out and we get Mola Lewis back. And we suit him up. And we have him knock out Brady and make him bleed on the sidelines like we did to Drew Bledsoe so many years ago. You know, can Matt Castle then break you to the, is it Matt Castle? Yeah, he's our backup. Yeah, can Matt Castle bring you to the Super Bowl? That's what I want to know right now. Justin: Uh, to the Super Bowl? Jake: I don't know. Justin: Probably not. I mean, I just haven't seen enough of him to know really. I mean with the I'd like to think that he could at least look like an average quarterback, but I'd be tough Jake: to say. I doubt that he could get him there. Alright, so here's what I think. Here's the way that the Jets are going to win this game, and I do think they're going to win this game because I'm a Jet Fan Homer, and I've proven that years and years, years in and years out. Here's the way we can win this game. First of all, we have to have a near perfect, I can't say perfect game because we don't have perfect players, we just have a near perfect game in terms of turnovers. Kellen Clemens has to play very well. He has to start reading the defense a little bit better than he's been doing. He has to understand the pocket presence and coming from his blind side. That has to happen. The second thing is Thomas Jones and Lee Ann Washington have to play out of their minds. They have to just run and run and run and keep Brady off the field. And Lee Ann Washington has to at least once bring back a touchdown, bring back a punt or a kick either to the 10 yards or all the way into the end zone. That's another thing. And then obviously, the number one thing is to get to Brady. Get to Brady, get to Brady. Everybody says that, but there is a way to do it. We beat you last year in Foxborough in a rainy, mucky game by getting to Brady. That shot of him in the mud at the end of the game when we win the game. So you're not, it's not impossible, but that's the way it has to happen. Other than that, it's going to be a whoop down, but I think the Jets can pull it out. I mean, I can't not believe they're going to pull it out. So Justin, what do you think? Do you think we can win this game? Absolutely. There you go. I picked them this week. Oh, you picked them with the spread. Justin: I picked them with the spread. Jake: It's 24 and a hook. Justin: 24 and a hook. So. I'm pecking them in the pool, so that's all that really matters. No it's not. Uh, no I think it's gonna be one of those games that maybe the jets can take that energy

48:00 Justin: that the Patriots always seem to create. That, oh everyone's going out and saying the Pats are gonna win by 70. Because people are literally saying the Pats are gonna win by 70. and take that as a real slap in the face and stick up for their guy man genie I don't know maybe they'll do it who knows alright it'll be really impressive and I've said there were a couple things I wanted to do this year and and one was beat Miami so that they stay winless and the other was to beat Pat so that they don't go undefeated so let's hope we can get that done Jake: So, give me a score. We're going to start right into our thrown picks right now. I'm going to give you a score for the game. I'm going to say Jets 21, Patriots 20. I know, it's crazy. Don't beat me up too much. So Justin, give me a score. I want to hear Alex first. Justin: Well, I actually put some thought into it this time. Jake: Alright, what's your score? Final score. Okay final score I got 49 13 Patriots Man well that's over the spread big time you're saying I cover the spread Justin. What are you thinking? I'm picking the Jets to win Justin: Yeah, and it's gonna be one of those really like close wacky games And I think the score is gonna be really like a wacky score So I think it's going to be like, you know, 32-31 or something. Jake: 32-31. I just don't see anybody scoring. If we score 32 points, it'll be a minor miracle against that defense. Justin: They might score 75. Jake: As long as they get fine for all that. Also, I think a key to this game, and I've told, I actually wrote into the Jets headquarters, I gave it to Manjini. Hopefully he'll get it. attention man, Jeannie, I said bring your own refs. If anything, just make sure to bring your own refs. Take the New York Jet refs and bring them to the game. Because if you let those Patriots have their own refs, it's not a good thing. Everything's a push out or not. Everything's a fourth down conversion or not. There's timeouts all over the place. I just tell you. They have a way of just making games happen. So, alright, there you go. So that's a good score. So two, the jet homers pick the jets and the, you know, that Patriot f picks the Patriots. So that's a good call. I will tell you, we'll invite you on if we win or if we lose. I don't want to see you again. I'll see how it is. So Buffalo, let's go on to the other thrown picks. We'll invite you into our weekly segment. Buffalo is going, oh sorry, yeah, Buffalo's going to Cleveland. cleveland's going back after being the chance of a good game this will be except for i've heard that uh... the buffers suffered another loss in uh... in their uh... in their offensive line so i don't know i just don't know if they can they can pull it out but what do you give me here just in case you score a fast or buffalo cleveland *Justin: This is gonna be a good game. I actually kinda wanna watch this game. Too bad I can't.

51:01 Justin: I think Cleveland will end up winning. It's gonna be a close game. Cleveland, there's gonna be some scoring in this game. I have a feeling. Even though the weather probably won't be too great. I'll say it's gonna be 28-21, Cleveland. Jake: Alright, Jeremy. Can we give me a score? and this is not for you to use not picking a homeless pick of your patriots so i think you have to think under forty for this game but uh... what do you think a little bit Justin: under uh... i'm gonna take cleveland uh... probably thirty one twenty four thirty Jake: one twenty four alright i think i'm going to go into i think i'm uh... you may be just because they beat us and it's just because i don't want to see but we'll get so they're rookie they pulled him that's it he's not he's he's certainly not starting this game they've gone back to the lemon and uh cleo is going to um do you know why they pulled jom back because they didn't want him to get killed they were actually literally afraid for his life i i understand that So I don't know, I mean, I think Quill actually gives him probably a better chance to win because Beck has shown nothing Justin: He stands there and gets hit. Yeah, he then stands there and gets hit Jake: That's what he does. More fun than this game will be the Miami Dolphins against the Patriots next week Justin: To see who is- are you playing in that game? Yeah, they need a receiver. Jake: Yeah, it's an all fan team. Basically the Patriot fans could take on the Miami Dolphins at this point. Justin: You know, once Brady and Moss hook up for their five touchdowns this week against the Jets, and they'll both break the single season records in the same game, they can both sit out the rest of the season. Jake: Well, I don't even know if they would and two weeks to go they might, but I don't know. Belichick gets whether they want to go. So actually, let's go for that and then answer that question. So Miami, Baltimore, what do you see, Jeremy? Well, there's not going to be much scoring, I don't think. I'm gonna go Baltimore probably 13 to 6 13 to 6 okay. I like that. I like that. Justin: By the reasonable last week. I didn't even pick the Dolphins game. I just said Dolphins will lose So that's what I'm doing this week. Dolphins will lose All right, come on now Justin. Give us a score losers be a big I mean both of these teams are losers the Dolphins are obviously 0 and 13 Baltimore started off to see that foreign to they've lost

54:00 Justin: their last seven they stink they have a lot of guys injured I think Alex right on the money with this one not a lot of scoring I'm even gonna go with a 12 9 Jake: baltimore twelve nine and i'm gonna stick in the same category i'm gonna say this is a game of uh... a game of field goals uh... not that i don't actually think i would get score the baltimore price corona defense but i'm not twelve three baltimore wins twelve three boy we're really we don't buy it by twelve actually consists of a touch down to fill the city of nice nice very well done so okay let's let's get the final thoughts here germany Let's get the undefeated thoughts. Here's your questions. Would you rather go undefeated or rather win the Super Bowl? You cannot do both. You get to have one or the other this year, this year. You go undefeated or you can win the Super Bowl. So you won. Justin: That's like a Sophie's Choice question. Jake: Yes, it is. One or the other. So you can either take the Super Bowl win, but you're going to lose one of these games. meaning you're going to lose either Giants, Jets, or Miami. right or and then you go and win two boy all happy like or you don't make you go you know you we win the season sixteen oh head to playoffs maybe one or two rounds but you lose out to somebody else you know the calls of the steel or something and uh... and that's it you don't don't win the symbol or or maybe as a mobile we don't want what what would you pick as a fan which is new which is more important to you Oh, definitely the Super Bowl. That's easy. Really? I totally disagree. You guys have three Super Bowls in the last. Never have too many, though. Justin: It's not a perfect season unless you win your last game. Jake: Really? Really? I don't know. I think you set you create something in the record books that will never be. See you next week. challenged again if you get a perfect season and yet untrue untrue untrue Justin: I think I think the 72 Miami team would actually Be able to say that they were the better team because they won the Super Bowl Jake: Definitely. All right. All right. Well, that's uh, that's some good final thoughts there I want to first of all thank our guest or this is uh, oh, I let's let's go to some self-promotion If you're still listening to us, if you haven't thrown up for all the Patriots talk and Jeremy spewing on and on about 19 and 0, head on over to www.jetkingdom.com, post in the forums, vote in the polls, read the gestures keep if you ever post another one. There's a thrown picks as always and there's a review if we win. Other than that... Hold on, hold on. I mean, you can always drop us a line, podcast.com. Shameless. Yes. And if we win the game, send us a lot of them because we're going to get out back on here and we're going to torture him if we win this game. He might even if he doesn't come on, one of us is going to use, is going to put on a little

57:01 Jake: twang, a little southern twang and pretend to be him and take on, take on the beating. One last question and then we'll call the night. Actively. Justin: As objectively as you possibly can. As your Patriot fan, yeah. All things being equal. Brady or Manning. Jake: All things being equal. All things being equal. You're asking a Patriot fan to- I just want his opinion! That's like saying- Justin: It's better than even asking anybody else. Let him answer. Jake: Oh, alright. I'm stunned. Let me just sit down. Let me sit down for this one. Well, you're going to accuse me of being a Homer, but it's definitely Brady. No question. Oh, I'll be your manning and he asked a Patriot fan. That's hysterical. It's a good question to ask anybody. Brady Schitt's gold bricks in Boston, didn't you know? He's wicked pissa. I tell ya, that guy- Justin: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I just gave out the opportunity, all things being equal, to have Peyton Manning on his team and he said no. What does that say? Jake: Oh, yeah, it says a lot because he's a Patriot Homer! Alright, that's it. We're calling it a night. I wanna thank Jeremy for stopping by and giving us some- some fodder for thought. I'd like to say thank you to Justin as always for coming by and asking the questions that no one else would ask, trust me. And as always, I would like to say, Go Jets!