Bell Be Gone

Opening

Onan! What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, see the lamentation of the women.

Transcript

Machine transcript generated in 2026 by Grok Bot from the episode audio (Whisper small.en + sherpa-onnx speaker diarization). Speakers labeled Opening / Jake / Justin. Timestamps about every three minutes. Diarization note: HOST_LOCK: after Opening, host/welcome voice = Jake; other = Justin; host-welcome cluster=0 @ 16.6s → Jake; other-primary cluster=1 → Justin; intro-self-ID Jake confirms host; Jason-ref Jake cluster 0 sim=0.85.

00:16 Jake: Welcome to the JKN podcast, the longest-running New York Jets just in the season podcast. I'm Jake, joining me. For 330 times in a row as I try to sip my coffee and say things at the same time is Justin Justin on a scale of zero to suck how sucky is the suck of this sucky jets Justin: zero to suck Where's zero is zero below or above suck like which one's worse? Which one's worse just tell me which one's worse I'll pick it Jake: It really depends on which side of the suck you're on. Anyway. And we're off. And we're off. So we have skipped one, two, three. Some of the jets to be fair. That's always our excuse. It's like, well, they're not gonna play. We don't have the podcast. Yeah. Justin: I mean if they're not going to practice hard or like listen to anybody or do anything right, Jake: well neither are we. Yeah, so why don't we go over a little bit of the what you have in our agenda as the organizational chaos. Yes, I do. And we'll talk about that. And then we will get into We'll kind of probably skip. I guess we could talk about last week's game, but God, I don't even know. It's like, is it worth it? We can talk about them all in a once. We can talk about all of the losses in a big lump son and then we'll move on to this week. Make our pick them. We'll do our throne picks and that's it. Like, well, we'll get out of here. Sure, sure, sure. Justin: This is even wrong because I think I wrote this like a week or two ago. this needs to change because you know it just keeps increasing these numbers. Oh my gosh. All right. Where do you want to start? You want to start with like, Lebian Bell, like the big news? Yeah, I guess that's kind of the big news. Jake: Let's start with probably one of the worst off season off season signings and usages in, besides Moseley, which is actually the worst. This is mostly, Moseley's unlucky. Justin: You know, you can't, you know, I got hurt. Okay. And then the guy decided not to play because COVID can't really blame the dude. Like that's a shitty thing. But like this one, this one's terrible. Jake: I'm a just standpoint. We got the guy for what? A half? Like half. Agreed. Agreed. And he'll never play another down for the Jets. Justin: So I don't know if that's true. I think he's on the team. I think he's on the team next year, but. But this one was this one's bad. Like this, this is like up there with like Neil O'Donnell bad, except it's on a bigger scale. Like Leveon Bell was an all pro superstar offensive juggernaut.

03:05 Justin: You call him a running back and call him whatever you want. And he's a utility player. He's you know, he needs to touch the wall like 20 to 30 times a game. to get rolling and he was a workhorse and one of the best offenses in the league for a number of years. And he gets to the Jets, they hire Adam Gase. Gase does not like the fact that Le'Veon Bell is on a team. He makes it known. It's like we shouldn't be spending money on running backs basically. That's his philosophy. And that's fair if your quarterback's Peyton Manning. That's all good. You don't need a good running back. That's like where this all like falls down is like this dude has this philosophy that only works when Peyton Manning is your quarterback and that's like. The epitome of dumb like you could look at like bill bell check and be like this guy's a great coach you can't figure out a way to win like with without Brady with whatever like. This is the exact opposite you give him tools and he says i need different tools. No these are the tools man and they're really good tools like a good tool use it. No i need a better tool alright so get thirty eight year old frank gore like that's what we have like that's adams his choice right i'd rather have frank gore. then lay the young bell. And to me that's a huge problem. It's not going to be solved until Adam Gace is gone. And unfortunately we wasted more years of the development of a young quarterback. It looks like it's not happening. And we had the things here. We had the running back in place. We just revamped our offensive line. Like it was all sitting there waiting to happen. And it's a fuckfest, it sucks. And I don't blame Lebian Paul in the slightest for how he handled this. He did it way differently and better than Jamal did. I feel like I respect Lebian more than I respect Jamal Adams the way that he left the team. and didn't say anything when he left. You know, they asked him, they baited him in Kansas City and tried to get him to talk about the Jets and he wouldn't. Jake: He said it didn't work out. Let's see. First of all, we play in Kansas City. Oh, yeah, he'll let that do the talking. Justin: He'll run for 180 yards and three touchdowns and the Chiefs will beat us 58. Two. And two. We're gonna get a safety? Yes, that's how we'll score. It'll be one of those like, the Chiefs fumbled it through the end zone or some weird thing. Jake: Or yeah, I'm, I'm just disappointed from a You know, you get excited about it. I mean, if you go back to even thinking and playing the playing that our podcast from before when we would, you know, when there's a chance to get Bell and like the shoot.

06:09 Jake: And I think of all these times that were like so excited to like, and then we get the thing that we want like getting mostly getting Bell getting Donald. These were all like. It was universal. This is going to make this team great. This is what we want. And then you get them, and either through organizational chaos or terrible ownership or just dumb or bad luck, it seems like we always end up on the other side of this. We got the thing we wanted. We pulled off the miracle to get Sam Darnold. And again, Thank you for watching. I mean, go back and listen and think about how we had to do that. All the pieces that had to fly and come into our way to get there and we get it. And now we're already talking about going to the next guy and and all the stuff to go, oh, my God, it's great. He was shopping different teams that we landed him. It's like, oh, my God, we got this incredible weapon. And then you look and it's two years later. Oh, right. That just doesn't matter anymore. And I can't tell if it's just we're just all galactic stupid. And maybe just we should stop with this like getting one player or getting another player or getting the big free agent or if it is truly just one guy's fault. I mean, it seems like a lot even as much as I hate Gates. And I went back and listened to our podcast, the section where he was hired. and to hear us both like Heminghaw, be like, well, well, I guess he won some games and I guess he knows AFC East and I guess he's coming from a division rival. So that'll help us. Meanwhile, I don't think we've beaten the Miami and we beat them in any years. Like I think Justin: No, I think I think that they've taken it to us since since then, because clearly all the players that are left from his regime. I hate his fucking guts. So that's a theme. That's a real thing, right? It seems like the players literally hate this guy. Jake: Well, I just don't know what you look at him and see likability. Even when he looked at her, you saw that someone would like him. If you look at Bowles, Bowles was like a stand-up guy. And apparently, he was really good in the locker. You'd hear that. But obviously, you look at Rex Ryan. And he was both behind the camera. and for. front of the camera, wherever he was, let's go get a fucking snack. He always had something about him. I would say man, genie is the last one that just you just couldn't understand why anybody would like him. He just looked at me like, okay, you're the genius. And was if we ever say someone's a genius again, we need to just stop because yeah, there are no geniuses. So but I look at case and I can watch that first interview with him. And how just robotic and And what was it about him that everybody was so or not everybody, but not everybody was excited about? Justin: You know what happened? Fucking Peyton Manning gave them a call and gave him a big fat boner over it.

09:03 Justin: Like that's what happened. Like that shouldn't be like what who is Peyton Manning to the Jets? Jake: Like who gives a shit? But but even that that's that's an endorsement. That's not that's not how you hire someone because an ex NFL Super Bowl star calls you up and says this is a good guy. Justin: Yeah, I'm getting it. I really don't understand and and by all accounts, the Jets had the guy they really wanted. And they had him in the they had him in the building. and they had him ready. It's the coach for Carolina currently, Raul. And he was coming out of, I think it was Baylor College, and basically it came down to he wanted to hire his own staff, you know, like a head coach. And the jet said no. Now was it the Jets at that point or was it Mac? Because remember we had Mac. No, it's not Mac. They didn't report to the coach, didn't report to the GM. The coach reported to the ownership. That's the way the Jets work. They both report to ownership. They don't report to each other. Jake: Maybe we should change that up. Maybe we should. I don't know. Every organization is different the way that they work in that way. Is it working for us? Justin: No, of course it's not working for us. But D.U.D. Do you want like the next coach to report to Joe Douglas? Yes, because you know why I don't think Jake: that Christopher Johnson has any sense of football or knows football or has any good decision making. So honestly, I do want to put it on Joe Douglas. I want to say you know football. We think you know football. We think you know anything. I want Christopher Johnson to be nowhere near any decisions around this team for the next five years. You hired you hire the guy and then you step away. That's our problem. It's not like we have someone who's a football phenom as a owner. By the way, he's not even the owner. He's the fucking brother of the owner. So it's like we've done are running our goddamn team. There's no owner. That's like, you know, football savant. There are good owners who like make good hires and then sort of Justin: lay in the cut. Like, step themselves back. Now there are owners like Jerry, there are owners like Jerry Jones, who get themselves too involved, right? You would argue, hey, Jerry, step the fuck away. You're not, he is the GM. It's like, Jerry, dude, you should not be the GM. You own the team. Like get the fuck out of here. You haven't won a Super Bowl since the early 90s. Like get the fuck out of here. Jake: Yeah, or you could look at other I think there are owners that do know football and their contribution is good or, or at the very least, because most of these people, these white rich privileged males who own football teams. Most of them are, are semi successful business people, right? Or very highly successful business people. And what their talent is, and you know, you and I are both business owners, what their talent should be. is finding, recognizing and hiring talent, right? That's what they're good at and running things like they should not be

12:02 Jake: the X's and O's. They shouldn't be saying this head coaches, you know, has this great offensive, you know, phenom, what they should say is what this is my advice, I'm just making it up as I go. What I want Christopher Johnson say is Hire Joe Douglas and that's it. Then you step away and you say, that's my job. My job is to find the best GM and then let that GM do his thing. And I do want the next coach to report to the GM. Yes, I do. I want this, I want the Johnson twins, whatever. I want them out of football. I want them to sit in the box, wear the little green tie, just be out of it. Let the guy who knows football. And by all intents and purposes, or all, you know, whatever, we think that Joe Douglas. those football and has been in this game and has been around to know it and then let them make the decisions because it's clearly not working for Christopher Johnson to make this hiring decisions, right? It's not working. I mean, Christopher, well, I don't know if Christopher Justin: Johnson hired Joe Douglas. So that's your, you're kind of like Christopher Johnson hasn't hired too many people. He hired Joe Douglas. That's about it. Like Woody hired didn't Woody hire Adam Gaze? No, no, they both hire. Oh, I bet you would he was, you know, come on, you can't Jake: look, I just you have to let the buck stop somewhere. And I don't want to stop stopping with the Johnson brothers anymore. I Justin: don't too bad because they own the team. So like pick another team. Well, no, it was this one day, they they they're not self made. people like that. Right. So where do you think that team's going? It's not going anywhere. It's a Jake: family thing. Maybe I get that. But maybe they can get to the point where they realize they're doing more harm than good. And it's time to put the CEO in charge of the fucking company and walk away and let the company be the company. Right. And that's why that's what I'm saying. You say should should the next head coach report to Joe Douglas? Absolutely. That's absolutely it. And Joe should make this. Should Christopher Johnson come in for the interview and say hey, like, oh, you know, maybe help with the last two he's got two candidates and open up the wallet? Absolutely. But from a from from should Christopher Johnson make the decision on the next head coach of the New York Jets? Absolutely not. and do not let that happen. That is the problem that we have every time. You see, go back and start looking at all the iterations of Idzix and fucking Max and like, I mean, this is where the problem sits. It's this little power struggle between the three of them and this one hires this one, then this one fires, and this one doesn't like this one. Then you bring in Idzix who's a fucking shit show, then he gets a terrible draft and that gets Rex gone. I mean, it's like... It's just it's a shit show of hiring. Yeah what they have not done Justin: Yeah, they really haven't done this at all in All of these like refreshes and rebuilds that we've been going through since I guess you could say like since rack started

15:02 Justin: They've never done the clean break where you have the GM and the coach both fired at the same exact time and then hired together like the Lynch Shanahan pairing in San Francisco for example and then saying here you go guys you're being hired together you have a six year contract both of you make this happen and guess what? three years later they were in the Super Bowl. So like, that's like a confidence thing. It's like, you guys are here to do this together, the two of you. Jake: Yeah, you're right. I think Rex Ryan and, and Trader Mike, which was a holdover from, from prior regime. That's right. But Trader Mike, right. He was in the New York Jets organization. They just promoted him. Justin: No, he was already the GM. Like they, they, they had, they did not like. He was already there like he was the GM Rex was hired as the coach then they fired Mike and they brought in Isaac and then they oh maybe that was the clean break it was Mac and bowls came in together yeah they really didn't like that was the thing. It was like kinda weird it was like here you go guys you don't even know each other but like. Jake: And you're not even interviewing together and you're just like right but who's making that decision right that's the owner That's right. That was woody because it was a holes in back like that I don't I don't want that to happen again. I I let's try it. Let's try different I agree bringing in bringing in Joe Douglas when when gazes around we all said it's like Joe's Unless Joe just loves gays which we don't think he does. Like he's gone. Gaze is gone. We know that Joe wants his own guy. I'm saying the only way out of this fucking problem is to get is to start there is to start. Okay, Joe, it's your it's your next head coach. And then that's that's the deal. You go you build the team. Justin: So let's um, let's flip that into just really quickly. Like you know, we've been shitting on Adam Gaze here. Let's keep doing it. So they're what? Oh, and oh, and six right now, right? Yeah. So, okay. So we haven't fired him yet. Or oh, and six. And there have been two coaches already fired. I find it strange. The Jets are objectively the worst team in the league right now. I find it strange they haven't fired him. I guess they're just thinking like... Wi-Fi room we keep him around we just we're gonna lose anyway. No, that's why not just keep him around like what is it? That's what is it? He's not doing anything good. Here's some statistics This dude as a head coach is 30 and 41 He has 33 of those 41 losses are by two scores or more We get blown up like this guy's a head coach blown out more than he wins. He has 33 losses by more than 10

18:00 Justin: points, or 10 points or more. He only has 30 wins. But here's the we're not in we're not even in games. Jake: Here's the logic. Here's the logic. And I said this on the podcast two weeks ago, or whenever the hell or whenever we talked about this, there's a couple. And this is where I think that you know, owning a team is difficult and you know, fans just can't make up the 0 and 3 and fire the head coach. There's a couple things in play. First of all, there's the contract. There's the like, where is the season? You know, you could pull this trigger too early and you make it looks, you know, you can look bad, you know, give the guy a Yes, yes, yes. O and six. There's no reason he should be around anymore. They're waiting for the by 100%. Like it's in three weeks. We have three good teams ahead of us. We're gonna lose to all three of them. We're gonna be oh, and nine and then he'll be fired and then it'll be the time to you know, that'll be the time to fire him. And but here's here's the logic if you're Chris Johnson, or even I think again, if I were Chris Johnson, I'd be going, Joe, when do you want to fire this fucking guy? Like, you're obviously out there looking like when do you when's the right time for the team? When's the right time for the press? But here's the thing that I think is gonna hurt us for a long time. And this is the thing you have to, this is the brutalness of the NFL, is that to a certain extent, when it comes to hiring the next head coach or signing the next free agent star. There is a there is a problem if your team is a fucking trash fire right if your team is seen as a perennial trash fire. Special with coaches right they don't want to come work for you they see you as a terrible team they see you as badly run right you don't want to go work for that company do you want to go work for the trash fire company no i don't work for them. So then you turn it down and you go to the other. How many times have we not gotten the guy we wanted? If I go back and look at you're saying last time it was rule time before that it was the guy who went down to Atlanta. What's his face? I mean, we sometimes it's about the organization and how the how the rest of the NFL and the coaches perceive the organization and they see the organization as a trash fire. They don't want to work for them. So they won't come you won't get the good coaches. So this is the think the logic of of not firing him on three if you're the next head coach coming in here right Adam Gates has had a year literally just last year and then this year is fucked up and I get it COVID blah blah blah I think they have to give him enough rope that it's just super super super obvious and that any head coach going in here go you know what I'd be I'd fire myself right Justin: So are you telling me that that hasn't happened just yet? Like it's not super obvious to you or anyone else like right now that the Jets are like 10 steps behind every other team in the league. Like when they get on the field, they're literally playing a different sport. Like we had Jake: no chance. I could make an argument that you should wait until the bye. I could make an

21:02 Jake: argument that you have to give you have to give enough of it. So it's just so complete at three It was. Yes, and three and four and five. Justin: Yeah, after the Thursday night game would have been a perfect time. They're like, okay, goodbye. And like, yeah, you want to make some excuses like Sam Darnold got hurt? Sure. But like, fuck you, man. Jake: No, like that happens all over the place and coaches work through it. I know, but even if they wait till the end of the year, which, you know, whether they fire him at the buyer at the end of the year, I don't really care. All I care is that he's fired. There's no, again, you don't really get a big benefit. Yeah, you can start looking early, but it's really not that big of a deal, right? So I don't, I think as an organization, maybe they just have a policy, we don't fire in mid season, we just don't do it. We don't think it's right. Justin: ridiculous. It's like you bring in a guy who is supposed to be useful in the way of making your young like franchise altering quarterback into a real thing And he has completely flubbed that Like that was his main objective. I think as a coach was to come in obviously win games, but like Dude, your real thing is like make Sam Darnold good. That will lead to winning games. And he is either Sam Darnold is not that good. OK. Jake: Or he has not been coached properly. And or scheme and, you know, whatever. Or weapons. That's part of coaching. Justin: I mean, that that way. I believe it is. Weapons is not coaching, but to be honest with you. Scheme is a total part of coaching and sometimes and sometimes You can get a lot out of a little when you have a good scheme Like you look around and some of some of the better offenses have some of the best guys in the league Sure, there are some offenses that don't have a whole hell of a lot of weapons, but they make the best out of it And they make their quarter, the quarterback actually makes everyone better. Jake: Unfortunately, that's not happening here. So here's here's so I mean, I don't think there's any doubt in the world that unless he literally wins out the rest of the games, which again, we don't think that's going to happen. And it makes the playoffs and the Super Bowl. We pretty much think his case is gone. Justin: I am such a sham because we went six and two to end the year last year. Did you think that we were any? Did you really think we were like, good? Like, that saved his ass going six and two down the Jake: stretch. That saved his ass because I just don't think you fire a coach after one year. It's a very rare thing. Yes, it happens, but it's so rare. Happens when it's obvious and then it actually looks good. I think it looks good to players like that. they were one of the best other than the Baltimore Ravens, the Jets had the best second half of the season. Super, super transparent. Like look who they played and like, come on, like this is

24:02 Jake: bullshit. Here's here's my worry. Here's my here's my worry as a Jets fan is that I've seen us do this before. I've seen teams do this before. I I've watched Sam Darnold, I've watched every damn snap, I've watched every damn game, I've watched games twice and three times, I've watched other teams, I've watched other players who are the greatest, whatever, young quarterbacks. There's nothing I see in him that just says this is a bad quarterback. Do I think he's somewhere between above average and the best? He's somewhere in that range. I don't know where he is, but he's above average. And now, Justin: Sorry, not currently currently he's he's well below average. Yes. From his stats. I'm saying from raw talent, whatever. I mean, whatever it is. Oh, whatever. Well, it is whatever. Because that's that's where the coach is such a failure. Because raw talent is I agree. Raw talent is one thing only if you know how to like harness it like lamar jackson by all accounts is not a better quarterback than sam donald but he's a much better much more effective quarterback than sam donald. Jake: But here's the thing i'm worried that we're gonna do the throw the baby out the bath water that we're gonna do this thing where because we're the jazz because we have no long term vision of nobody stick to things like you know all the fans already going for the. There's, you know, there's the next shiny toy on the on the, you know, on the shelf. Right? We just two years ago, three years ago, we're all sucking for Sam, we've had an entire year trying to get this kid, right? It's not like it's like we don't know what his ability is. We follow them for a year in college, we pay attention to all the stats, we watch all the tape, we like, so I just I'm super worried that we're going to do the whole like, let's do it again. Here comes you know, here come first pick and we're gonna pick some young guy and trade Sam for if you can trade them and they can't they couldn't train Bell, which is ridiculous. So trade Sam for some bowl of, you know, peanuts somewhere. And then he will then become in the right system with the right coach with the right weapon, he'll become great and are and will be on the next of the next of the next picking these you know, the top eat, I just, you know, we have the mutual Jets fan who does list this podcast. It's like this guy is the game changer. He's a once in a lifetime. Like that's exactly what you said about Sam. It's exactly what you look I have a if I had a frickin recording of the kids saying it. It's like he's though. It's a once in a lifetime. It's a once in a 10 year and you look up. Like we say that about every single time. There's a point where you gotta stop looking at the one like you do have a good quarterback. He's an above average quarterback. He could be great. He's at worst. He's above average. I watch games. I see how bad some quarterbacks are. Right? He's just there. I mean, let's talk about whatever. I don't want to talk giants. But like, you just just giving up at this

27:03 Jake: point, I think would be such a galactic stupid Jets move that I can't even tell you I just it would disappoint me so much. Justin: Yeah. I agree. I think he's too young. You lose sight of that. He's in his third year, so he gets compared to other third-year quarterbacks, but he's the age of the rookies. Jake: Right. Justin: That's his actual age. He sort of has a leg up because he's played two-plus seasons in the NFL. Where is these rookies are in their rookie year where they had a really fucked up like training camp and then it makes me like think well why the fuck is joe burrow playing then. Sam darnold like why does joe burrow look like a legitimate professional quarterback right now in cincinnati where are guy. does not look above average. I'm sorry. And you can't tell me like Cincinnati has all these Jake: weapons because you can't name one. That's also very short sighted. That's like, oh, I looked to five games and this guy's doing great. Do it over a couple of years. We're watching guys now. Dimes, look at this kid. Last year, Danny Dimes was Super Bowl bound. There was no stopping him with the best pick they ever picked. And now it's all like, oh, they even said it on the broadcast last night. They're like, yeah, I just don't think this guy is like a professional quarterback. I was like, really? Last year you guys were all up his ass. You got it. You can't just look at it from a three game stage. Yes. Let's see Joe Burrows in a year. Look at, oh, the Red Rocket. That's Andrew Dalton. Andy Dalton, the number one thing. It's like, he's the greatest. He's the greatest. He'll get great. He'll get his numbers every year, just putting up better and better numbers. rocks, if they win this, they win the division, they get in the playoffs constantly, the kid never could make it happen. So you can look at his numbers from all those years and say, that's great. Or he could be like, yeah, he's not another winning, doesn't have a winning thing. So don't talk with Joe burrow until we get a season or two and Joe burrow so we can see what he actually can do. Then he's just a five game wonder. I don't know who they played. What defense they played. How long is it? You know? Well, let me ask you this. Justin: What's Sam Darnold after two and a half years? He's an above average quarterback. Fuck you. He's ranked bottom of the league in everything. Why is he above average? Tell me why he's above average. Explain that. Explain what measures you're using to say that he's an above average quarterback, Jake: other than your eyes. Well, first of all, my eyes. Second of all, like from his numbers, his numbers, where is he to average? He is a 60% completion rate quarterback this year. He's blowing donkey dick all over the place. But that's not his history. He doesn't have a look back in the last two years. Yeah, Justin: not his history. Like what's his what's his what's his career? You're using one metric completion percentage. Where does he rank this year in terms of Jake: completion percentage? Where did he rank last year?

30:02 Jake: 51.9 last year, 59.4 this year. Okay, but you're calling him above average. What's the average? I don't know, I'll go look at the average. Justin: Just look at all the quarterbacks in a row and be like, okay, where is he? Is he in the middle somewhere? Is he towards the bottom? Jake: Well, it depends what you're looking at. Justin: Yeah, you're using one dumbass metric, completion percentage. Like Teddy Bridgewater has an incredible completion percentage. Why do I throw the ball three yards? Like, okay, good for him. Jake: So that's right. That's as a fan. I'm looking at it. I'm like, I've watched every kid. I've watched this guy play football. I've watched football consistently. He's an above average quarterback. I see it in him. I've seen him play amazing games. I've seen him. Yeah, I've seen him suck ass. I've also seen I watched Aaron Rodgers go out there and not score for three quarters. I've never seen that before in my life. Aaron Rodgers went out scored the first quarter. I just... Justin: I just don't I think that you need to sort of check yourself on the Sam Darnold isn't above average quarterback right now That's my belief. That's my belief Okay, it it's an opinion and it's not true I mean it's objectively it's objectively not true like he's just not right now like if you just look in the division Like I guess he's the worst quarterback in the division. I think No. At this moment in time? Starting? Toa. Well, Toa just got named the starter, but Fitz is better than Donald right now. No, he's not. He is. He's had a much better season than Sam Donald has had. Jake: Yes, and I've also watched him in a fourth quarter throw three interceptions and lose. So poor. So have I. He's never been to the... Hey. He's never won a playoff game in his life. Justin: Hey, the perennial backup. He's not good. Listen, I've watched him win 10 games for the Jets. I've never seen I've never seen Sam Donald win more than six. So like, there's a thing there. Okay. And Cam Newton is better than Sam Donald. And Josh Allen is certainly better than Sam Donald right now. Like these are things that are true. Like, no, by what measure? True. Okay, I'll use my measure my eyes. They're better than Donald. That's your opinion. That's why you have an opinion. Very good for you. I think I think Sam Donald has tons of raw talent that is unutilized right now. And like that is a systemic problem, not a Sam Donald problem. But to call him above average right now is being super like I'm saying jaded. Jake: Jesse, if I'm saying above average, I mean, I'm saying like, Justin: well, I mean, above average means he's like better than the average quarterback. Yes, to me is false. Jake: I think he is. I think the story. If this if there's a starting 5th, 3132 teams right now that I think he's he would fall in a talent and who he is not his today the last game he played but of a do you think this kid is a long term above average gonna win games quarterback I say yes.

33:09 Jake: That's again it's a projection in the future yeah I was I'm talking about right now. What is the game he didn't play last week? No, like the 2020 season. No, but I'm not judging him on the 2020 season. No, no, no, no. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Justin: If you polled the other 31 teams and said, hey, we'll trade you, we'll give you Sam Darnold. You give us your starting quarterback. I guarantee you. Well, you can't. I guarantee you that more than 16 teams would say, no, thanks. We're good with our guy. Jake: Yeah, that's your looking at this season. And you're also talking about trades and the problem. If Sam Darnell was free, like a free dollar. Yes, free, free. Fuck the money. Free. Hey. They both make the same money. We're just going to trade. Justin: Oh, I guarantee it. Jake: Well, you can guarantee anything. I guarantee 20 teams would be like, no, thanks. We're good with our guy. Well, again, what I'm saying is we're going to make them. I don't want us to make the stupid mistake that we perennially make, which is to give up on somebody and then watch them go off and be better than they were with us. That's a guarantee. I mean, that's a good Man, you're full of guarantees tonight. You're guaranteeing all over the place. I think that you gotta look up guarantee and know what it means. Justin: Well, I mean, just look at recent history, right? Robbie Anderson leaves literally this year and all of a sudden he's like a fucking all-pro receiver. Jake: And if I go back and guarantee you listen to your podcast, talk about what we should do with Robbie Anderson, you absolutely said get the fucking rid of that guy. Absolutely. So I couldn't guarantee you and Joe Douglas and probably me were wrong. Well, guaranteed wrong. We're just looking at numbers, right? Like, oh, wait, we can't look at numbers from this year. So you're saying that Robbie Anderson, while in the past has been okay, like he's, but he's the only big weapon on our team. He goes to someplace else in a better system flourishes. And now it's a mistake. We got rid of him. Just don't make that mistake with them. Just don't make mistake with them, which is proof. Justin: positive of what we've both been saying, which is that Gace and his system is a pile of trash and currently with Sam in that system and the current environment that we have to live in, the box that we're in, he's below average. It's not necessarily his fault. Some of it is, but some of it isn't. He makes really stupid fucking decisions sometimes, like some of the picks he throws are like, what the fuck, dude, what are you doing? And some of the things he doesn't do, like, you know, and he doesn't get rid of the ball or it's like you see it afterwards in some of those breakdowns. And it's like, bro, you could have thrown a touchdown there. And instead you took a sack. Like, yeah, some of that stuff looks terrible.

36:02 Justin: But other other times it's like. Oh, it's a system. There's three guys that are like literally running the same route. And it's like, what in the fuck is that? That how can he be good? Like, right. So it's like this weird thing. It's like, it's like Robbie Anderson. How could we have known that he could do more than what he was asked to do? Like he was saying it. He's like, I'm not just a deep threat. I'm a real receiver. And. We weren't using him in that way, so we couldn't tell. Jake: Again, I don't, I'm, there's only a couple choices we have. We can't, you know, we can't change the ownership. We know that. That's not a thing. What we can do is hope. Let's buy the team. Let's buy the team with all the Jet Kingdom ad revenue that we make. Let's just hope that we can get the NFL or the we can get that one of the Johnsons to wake up or to whatever and realize that they are not good at hiring head coaches that you this is not your forte you have now struck out like so many times. So it's now time to take a backseat to recognize your history. They shared that remember they tried to hire those like they hired those like consultants to come in and be like, help us hire. I'm not asking consultants. I'm saying this you for all intensive purposes, the only belief you can have right now, if the only hope in the world you have as a Jets fan, is that Joe Douglas knows what the fuck he's doing. And by trading off, you know, McClendon in the middle of a fucking game, he's literally like, he's like running out to the huddle. And he's like, Oh, by the way, you're traded after this game. Justin: Yeah, you may as well just sit. Sit over here. We don't know what you get hurt. Like, fine. We're down 20 before nothing. You can just sit over here. Jake: It's all good. We're, you're just hoping that this guy has a plan. Like that he is, but we have two drafts coming up that we're going to have a shit ton of picks to first round picks in two drafts coming up. A lot of capital. What I would suggest to the Jess fans and to everybody is don't fucking waste those on quarterbacks. Thanks. Do not get other weapons. I get it. If it's a once in a lifetime player and I went and I started watching his film like Trevor, whatever the fuck his name is, I started watching his film and I watched his highlights. I was like, you know, it's fun when you watch a college highlights. One of these you notice is like the guy escapes, right? He escapes or he throws the ball in the and the court, you know, the receiver catches it over the corner. And one of the things I always think is like, The quality of the guy chasing him, like that guy, that linebacker who's after the quarterback, that guy will never play football again. Like he's, or that corner, he might never ever see, he'll never get drafted. That corner is not getting drafted. He's just a piece of shit. Like he's just a college student. And so you see them kind of like making these amazing plays, but they're kind of playing on an uneven.

39:07 Jake: or they don't if you're Lamar Jackson. Well, they catch him. He could keep. No, he takes sex all the fucking time. He's probably sure. Sure. I say he eludes more people than he doesn't. Uh, he's careful. I think he's rather he's rather elusive. You could say like, yeah, he gets sacked. Justin: Sure, everyone gets sacked. But like when he goes to like run. He's a dangerous motherfucker. So is Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson doesn't get hit. He doesn't take big hits. He escapes. He runs. He gets out of there. Top 10 quarterbacks who've been sacked this season by rank. Not relevant. Not a relevant statistic. Oh, okay. It's not because there's so many factors to that. Like if Russell Wilson's in the top 10, I'd say, I would give you the excuse. I'd say he's making shit happen for his team. Thank you for watching. Jake: And also they're undefeated so like he's also the mvp like there's all these things it's like sure you take some sacks but like you're trying to make sure you're number two and three or joe burrow and daniel jones not the people who are winning games so no total agree like losing football like agreed but. Justin: To say like Lamar Jackson, like if you go back and watch him in college. Like, oh, he'd totally get tackled in the NFL. Not true. He's not. He's not getting tackled in the NFL in these plays. Like it's just not happening. He's running for 40 yard touchdowns. He's escaping getting out there and the weaponry of him. Literally him being the multifaceted weapon confuses the shit out of every defense they play So like that's what makes it easier for him to throw because you've got to try to stop him Literally him and the running game that kind of comes off of him. It's whatever he's a different player Jake: It's it's a whole different ball game with him. It's not a different play. We've played we've seen that's player up billion times the very highly big running not a billion like not a billion like not really Justin: okay like you name one guy you said a billion that's a lot of numbers you know i've already named one i think cam i think ben rossberger like i think these i don't think ben rossberger's that guy dude like if you watch the marjaxon you watch Bemrotzberger, they're very different people. Jake: Watch Ben Rothfederger years ago where he would just throw people to the ground. Justin: They're still very different people. No, Lamar Jackson's not a throw people to the ground guy. He's a I'ma run the fuck around you guy. He's more like Michael Vick. I was Vick Smaller though, much smaller. That's why Lamar's more dangerous. Okay. We got the moves. He wouldn't even run the 40 at the combine because he was scared that the GMs would be like, you're not a quarterback. Jake: Because you're too fast. He's very good. I would like to let's again, you got to show it over a period of time.

42:02 Jake: You can't just do it one year. You can't just do it two years. You have to show that the greatest quarterback in the history of quarterbacking is not a greatest quarterback because he had two great seasons. It's because he won six Super Bowls and had 20 seasons and records. Agreed. the end. Justin: And what I think is the most important thing to kind of take away from this, and we'll leave it here perhaps, maybe, is that if you look back over the course of time, these like great, the greats, they're paired with great coaches. They don't just, they're not just like the greats. They don't carry things on their own. Like even Peyton Manning, he didn't win anything till... Tony Dungy was with him, right? Even like, like, when you look at Tom Brady his whole career, like, Bill Belichick's the guy, okay? You look at, you look at, like, the real greats, you know, Brett Favre, if he was coached by, like, Mike Holmgren, like, he's an offensive genius, Joe Montana. with Bill Walsh, like the greatest have great coaching to go along with them. That's what we're totally lacking. Like there's no, we thought we hired the offensive guy. It's offensive. Like the guy's terrible. We scored zero points last week. We've played in six games and the offensive scored six touchdowns. What the fuck is that? Wait, that's not good. Apparently not. Jake: Okay, I just want to make sure. Yeah, we zero is bad. Again, that seemed like a that seemed Justin: like an obvious but with the bills on when Ryan Fitzpatrick throws two interceptions and you still score zero points and still get blown out by 24. Like, come on. The most Jake: winnable game is after the only winnable game in this season is after the is after the Bye. And you lose, lose, lose. You fire. You get a buy, and maybe we win that one game coming back. What is it? It's a game. Oh, yeah. Justin: That's a possibility. I could see this. I know the Seahawks are on our schedule. Like, later on in the year, I could see Jamal having a good time during that game. Oh yeah, no we're we're bills chief patriots not really this game i could see the bills dominating as i could see the chiefs like that might be laid down bells like first game with them and i can see him running for a number of yards in the handful of touchdowns like it's gonna be gonna be great. Jake: Can we have chargers dolphins i can actually see if two is in there is the dolphins again i can see a rookie. Then considering we just scored zero points against them. That's also a problem. Yep Raiders Seahawks Rams Browns Patriots again I mean, it's just it's it's a bloodletting. I don't know. Maybe if the Browns are like Justin: Beat up by then but they're looking pretty decent. I don't know man. I have no idea that that's a that's a 1 in 15 0 and 16 season if I've ever seen them, this is a bill coat a rich coat a level

45:06 Justin: Fuck up and I mean It's okay when we were terrible. It's what we needed to kick into the parcels which actually kick started. I'm decent run for the jets like you know parcels. Herm, Mangini, Rex That was not a bad stretch of like 12, 13 years. I think we made the playoffs half of those years, maybe a little more even, but we haven't sniffed them in 10. So that's, that's probably, yeah, we really haven't even, we were close that one year and then fits through three picks in the fourth quarter in a game that you have to win against a team that. Jake: is playing for nothing. And that's the Jets. Yeah, I mean, it's it's maybe it's maybe this is the reboot that you know, that we needed. I mean, it's supposed to be three years ago, but maybe we need to reboot again. Again, I do not want to have the number one pick next year. And I do not want to get rid of Sam. And the only thing I the my one thing with Sam is I'm a little concerned that he is not. that he hasn't played a full season like, yeah, he's getting injured a lot. I mean, it's not a lot, but it's still like, dude, I need you to like, take a hit and and stay on the field. And even that he went out came back in that game. We were like, Oh my god, he's back. Yeah, I started for the season. Why do you why do you come back? Like, why did they let him back? Yeah, so let's see. All right, let's get out of this. Let's start talking Yeah, what do you want to talk about now? I don't really want to talk about anything to do with games We just talked about games. Let's do the pick them Now you want to talk about the pick them? All right, cool. Let's just pick them. Let's see where let's see where we are in the in the In the league you I'm like I'm in last I don't even pick when we don't podcast so like That's, see, it's always an excuse with you. You're gonna, you're like, Gace, you're gonna come into the office, but well, it's COVID. Last week was noodle. It's COVID. It's all good. The first, the best guy or in the leader now is with 48 is inspect the damage with eight. Right? I mean, that's like Oi, that's whatever. You got a whole three correct last week. That was good. You should not head to Vegas. Justin: Well, you know, they didn't have all the games up and then I didn't go back to like three. He's on the schedule going off. Jake: Even though I told you to go back and pick the two. Yeah. And I told you I'm not doing it. Okay. Again. Good excuses for not being good at something. But anyway, the leader is 48. There's two actually Sam, Sam BAM. Thank you, man. This number two is tied for 48. And then UK, jet life and me are in second. All right, well, I'm already did shitty yesterday because I thought Philadelphia would cover a four and a half point spread. I was wrong. Justin: Same, same, same, same.

48:00 Justin: Let's go, let's pick one. All right, let's do it. So spreads no AFC East. Spreads no AFC East. Drink if I mention any AFC East. I will. All right. Here we are this Friday. So as you mentioned yesterday went off and Philly beat the Giants 22-21. So the Giants covered. All right. So. Jake: Let's see how many four o'clock. So you have one, two, three, four healthy, healthy slate of four o'clock. Yeah, they moved. They moved. It was interesting. They moved the night game. They moved. Was it chargers? They swapped chargers and Rams. No, sorry charges the Seattle Arizona game. And I think the Oh, they've already they're already like flexing shit in and out. Yeah, but they flexed it. But they said it was for COVID reasons. I'm like, what's the difference? What's a four hour difference in COVID? Like, yeah, seriously. That's like, let's Justin: get let's get them. Let's get this division Seattle Arizona thing up, but these are two good teams. Let's get that on Sunday night. Yeah, that's a that's a that's a total rating grab I I'm in total agreement with you. All right, let's do this thing. All right Atlanta is hosting Detroit Atlanta one of the teams that fired their head coach Atlanta home favored by two and a half I'll take Atlanta two and a half to Detroit and Detroit's no good. So that line should be a little higher. I think I Agree, I'll take Atlanta All right. We have Cleveland going to Cincinnati Cleveland favored by three and a half. I don't like the half. So I'm gonna take the points. I'm going to take Cincinnati at home in three and a half points. Jake: I feel like this is a good comeback game for Cleveland. So I'm going to say they Justin: they blow them out. Here's a really good one. Pittsburgh at Tennessee is a great game. This should have been the one at night. These are two undefeated teams if I'm not. Oh yeah, they're both five and oh yeah. Yeah, these are these are some good teams. I'll just take the- team Tennessee two and a half just because it's not three I'll just do that. Jake: I just have a feeling I watched Pittsburgh beat the crap out of Cleveland and I really think Pittsburgh is a better team I think they're a scary team now Tennessee Tennessee's good man Justin: They beat the shit out of the Bills like they ran they ran the ball for like 250 or 300 yards against the Bills which is not easy. Yeah, they did but whatever I still take this broke All right, I'll take the points at home Alright, New Orleans is hosting Carolina and New Orleans is giving seven and a half. Again, I'll take the underdog because of that half point. I like Teddy Bridgewater going back into New Orleans and proving something. So I'm going to go with that. Jake: I don't see it. I'm gonna take Norlin's as a as the winner and blow through that. All right, I'll skip our game, which is fun. It was off. Interesting. We'll talk Justin: about that later. Dallas is going to Washington to play the football team and

51:07 Jake: apparently they're gonna keep that name for next year. They're not even gonna come up with a name. They're gonna do it again next year. You know what's amazing? Justin: They did a full rebrand, full logo, full everything in like two months. Other teams take, I don't know, five years to do this type of thing? And all that was, but they had to. Like that wasn't day. Who cares? They did it. Like if you have to do it, you do it. You do it fast and it's done. Like what's the difference? I'm sure there's plenty of merch. It's not it's not it's not permanent. It's just a temporary thing. It's I'm sure they're selling plenty of it. So whatever. People pick it up. They're Washington football. I do. I think it's like actually kind of a novelty item. I would like one actually I would love like a Washington football team. So stupid. Anyway, Dallas is going to Washington. These are bad teams. I'm gonna just take my home team because they're and underdog Washington getting one point at home. Jake: Yeah. Wow. We don't agree on one yet. I'm gonna take Dallas. I know they suck, but I think Justin: without Dak, it's not the same team. They have a quarterback. It's not sure. Sure. Sure. They I mean, you're right. They have Randy Dalton. i guess serviceable as a backup he's the backup in the lead yeah he's like a he's one of those guys that we talk about right like hey this is a guy who can win some games if you need to buy. What should i get but unfortunately it's not like if you need to situation where it's like three games the whole season so like i don't know how i feel about that anyway. Jake: I'll take Washington talking about a six win team in that division can go to the totally totally after last night I totally see it like Phillies no good the Justin: Giants are terrible Washington also no good Dallas no good and we talk about Jake: how so I think Philadelphia is an interesting thing there's a quarterback that like everybody was saying was just Carson Lance like miles about everybody else and now what's up? What's up, Carson? I don't know. I don't know. I think maybe the system got a little stale. Like they just never evolved Justin: it any more than they needed to like, like that that Philly system should look a lot like Chiefs and a lot like the Bears, you know, and it doesn't for some reason, I don't know. Whatever. All right, Green Bay at Houston. Green Bay favored by three and a half on the road. I Jake: think they bounce back. I'll take Green Bay. Yeah, they have to bounce back. I was watching that game because I had, you know, I had it in a picks pool and I was watching them like they're up 10 zero in the first quarter. And I'm like, Okay, Green Bowl is gonna roll over them. and then did not score for the rest of the team. I've never seen Green Bay just shut down like that. Throw, oh, Aaron Rodgers throwing a pick six, like things you don't see, like.

54:02 Jake: I think I'd heard that was only the third time he's ever done that in his whole career. And he's Justin: been playing for like 15, 16 years. Yeah, I think it I think they have big bounce back. I mean, the Jets throw three pick sixes a year. He's done it three times in 17 years or something. Like that's amazing. When you think about it, right? Every time the Jets get the ball at our own 10, we're like, no pick six, no pick six, no pick six. All right. Tampa is going to Vegas to play some football apparently. This is the start of the afternoon session. It's the four o'clock. I like Brady. I like Brady on the road here. Jake: Laying three. I'll take Tampa. I will take the home team. I'll take the Vegas Raiders. Oh, it's not so weird to say. It is weird. Justin: Kansas City is going to Denver. Kansas City favored by 10. You know, Kansas City is one of those teams that should always be favored by like double figures because they're so explosive, but then you never know. Like, it's a game like last weekend. It happened. It's going to be tight. This is a division game, so it could be kind of tight. It's in Denver. Oh, this is a hard pick. Yeah, that's a tough pick. I'm going to pick Kansas City to roll. Jake: I I'm picking Denver to cover. I don't want to win, but I think you mentioned the things I like. Like there's there's always the. Look, they don't always put up 50 points to 20 and they're in Denver and it is divisional. I think it'll just be closer than 10. Justin: I'm already regretting my Kansas City pick. You just talked me out of it, but I'm keeping it. I don't think we've agreed on one pick yet, so it's going to be a bloodletting on one side. Or not, or it'll be like even Steven. All right, skipping that one, moving right along to the last afternoon game we have... the LA Chargers. That always confuses me seeing LAC. I always want to say the Clippers. Whatever. LA Chargers are home and giving seven and a half to Jacksonville. Another hard line. That's pretty. decent sized line for a one win team to be like favored by like right aren't the Chargers like a one win team like shouldn't be favorite like I'm sure. Jake: Shouldn't it should not just be like a three I'm gonna take the points. I'm actually I think this I think the Trushers are gonna win. Justin: It's a lot of points for a rookie quarterback on a one-win team to win by I don't know it's a lot All right, then we got our you know, our marquee matchup here on Sunday night. We've got Seattle at Arizona Seattle is favored on the road by three and a half Another tough one Arizona's tricky because you never know what you're gonna get there. I think Seattle's too smart. I'll take Seattle

57:05 Jake: Well, we agree. I think Seattle is is is too good of a team for that and for that for Arizona So they'll win by I picked four or five six in there not to fix Seattle Justin: All right, and we got a good Monday night game. I think I think this will be a good one Two pretty decent teams do decent records We have the Rams hosting Chicago. Jake: The Chicago decent though. Are they really like you? I know. Do you believe in Chicago? It's a good question. They're five and one. Yeah. Record aside, like do you believe it? Justin: Let me let me. They're five and one. I believe they have a very good coach. And I think that they have a steady hand in there at quarterback with Nick Foles right now. Nick Foles is like undervalued in a lot of ways. And in the right system, which he's in the right... quarterback, Super Bowl winning Nick Foles? Precisely. And he's in the system that he won the Super Bowl in. With the head coach having been the offensive coordinator on that team, he's in the right spot for him. Like, this is where he shines. So I don't think Chicago is like... like a mirage or anything like that. I think they're halfway decent team. With that said, Jake: I think the Rams are gonna roll here on Monday night and win by more than five and a half points. So I'm gonna take the Rams. I should take the Rams because I actually think they are, I've already picked, I've already picked Chicago. So I just don't think I believe in Chicago. Justin: Yeah, no, I totally hear you on that. Because they are kind of a mirage, right? Like they do look worse than they actually are when it comes down to it. Like they're five and one. They don't look like a five and one team. Like they've almost lost a handful of games. They've had a lot of close games against not so good teams, like the Giants, for example. Anyway, whatever. Let's do our AFC. uh east through unpicks of which we only have two to make if i'm not mistaken because miami miami's on a buy um and why don't we touch on that for a second miami's on a buy they just beat us so they they just crushed us 24 nothing tua came in at the end of the game to sort of ice it. Yep. Even through the ball a couple of times, which was surprising to see. And they pulled, they pulled the plug, they basically said, okay, two is our starter now fits. Thank you. Time to go to the bench. They did what we wanted the jets to do when we had fits basically like, Hey, man, you are the stopgap. Thank you for stopping the gap. We just drafted our guy. Here he is. And Fitz apparently did the thing that we knew Fitz would do, which is he doesn't want to be that guy.

1:00:02 Justin: He wants to be the starter and like he thought, hey, I'm playing really well. We're three and three. Like, why are you pulling me now? And he made a stink about it. And I don't like that. Like, that's why Fitz is not the right guy to be that stopgap. That's why you shouldn't have Fitz on your team. He's never played in the playoffs. He's been on eight or nine teams in like 13 years. Like there's a reason for all these things. There's a reason why you draft to a number five when you already have Fitzpatrick on your team. Like, dude, the writing was on the wall. Like, be a better leader than that. Jake: Like, I heard his comment and I don't think it was bad. I don't know if you actually listened to it because it wasn't as bad as they're making it seem like he made a stink. He kind of said, look, I was disappointed. It's like they got fired. You know, I was playing really well. But you know now and then I want to zoom and whatever and I got help out the kid but it's not okay, I get it. So I'm hoping I can kind of like rolled it around. I think there's a different there's a hard line between being a competitive person. And then like if you're super competitive, and that's what makes you good and win games and go out there and you know, do all lift all those weights as to news to say, like then you want to play. So I think it's it's OK to be disappointed that you get benched, especially because it's not for playing badly. I guess that's the thing. Like he got benched because it's the bye week and they want to give the new. Right. And that's why he should be pissed. Like, but then it's also like understand your role, dude. You weren't here to win the Super Bowl. You were here to back up, well, for years now. to back up, you know, some guys like other guys, we want to give a chance chance you're not here to be our star. Justin: That is his role. And like, what and and I got to commend the dolphins because this was a hard choice, right? They're three and three. He is playing halfway decent, right? He's gotten like to where they are. And they've shown major improvement since last year, right when they were kind of a trash fire at the beginning of the year. And they've clearly got something like sort of going. But they did draft this kid number five to like plug into the thing that they have going. So like, he's kind of understand that and be a little more self aware and like recognize that publicly he should be more supportive of Tua first and foremost. Because that will endear him even more to the fans and the team and maybe have him stick around for three more years as the backup who knows. But dude, you're not a starter. Jake: He did say it though. I think his first thing is he felt bad getting fired. He did say, okay, now I'm here to support Tua. Again, I think it's a little bit them. taking the one clip out of way and make it seem, you know, make it seem worse than it really was. It does seem weird. They're three and three. They're, they're one game out. Bills just lost the last two games. Justin: Yeah, but it's the thing that you and I totally agree with, right? And would have agreed with if it was our team, like, nope, now's the time, like pull it even if we don't make the playoffs, it's fine. This is the time you pull the plug. Because

1:03:02 Justin: if they waited, and I know, and this is the weird part and why Fitz is probably frustrated. That bye week wasn't supposed to be this week. Right. For Miami, right? Because of all the schedule flipping around and like they were supposed to have a bye week into the jets, which was the plan. Let's let to a go through the bye week as the starter and then let's have this cakewalk of a game against the jets where he comes in and just beats the jets and he has a nice wind going in as his first but that plan got upended because of how the schedule got moved around so the dolphins reacted accordingly in my opinion they did the right thing. Jake: Yeah, I think I think it's gonna work out. Well, it depends. Like obviously, yeah, but you're a believer in to then it'll be fine. I'm personally not like I don't know. I've watched this a little bit of stuff. But I'm, until he shows me I'm not like gonna fall over myself, like some others have. And when I watched the draft. I wasn't like we all knew they're picking in but it was like there's some questions around him. But you're doing a bye week and then you're coming into two games. You're coming into Rams at Home. That's not an easy game for a rookie and then you go into the Cardinals. No. Not an easy game. And you got the Chargers, maybe that's good. Then you got the Broncos and Jets. Okay, you know, somewhere in That's where it, you, theatibility? But so you but here you go as an organization will see the interesting they come in. Let's say they lose the next two games. They're three and three. They're one game out, right? They're three and three. There's no turning back. There's no turn back. That I see. That's the thing that I think is interesting. Like they were saying that on the thing. They're like, oh, yeah, they would definitely turn back if it's the bed, if he shits the bed. Two games, shits the bed. I'm talking like Justin: Just yeah, if he goes out there and looks like like lost like a brace petty Like brace petty look completely lost yeah like that yeah, that would be that would be okay. You're not ready yet situation But this is a top five pick you they have a little more rope table You know the slack is there for them to you know Jake: But that's the thing. This is usually done at the point where the season you do the switch, not when you think that you can still win it, but when Justin: No, no, let me let me well, let me give you two two things. Number one, I think if this were a normal season end. 2A would have won the job in the preseason and would have started game one. Jake: That's number one. I'm pretty certain that would have happened with the top five. Because he didn't have any pre-game. He didn't have any pre-game. None. Zero. No preseason games. Justin: So, like, and really the preseason was very abbreviated. Like, it was all over Zoom and shit. Like, you can't throw a road. Cincinnati did it with Joe Burrow, but like...

1:06:00 Justin: It's really hard. And honestly, the charges went right to... Yeah, they got hurt. Yeah, I heard. That seems to happen to Terrah Taylor all the time. But also, the other thing to just think through here is... I look back to how the Giants handled Eli Manning. And in the moment, it looked completely wrong. The Giants had Kurt Warner as their starting quarterback, future hall of Famer, prior to him going to Arizona, right? He still had years left in him. They were like maybe five and five or like five and four something like that. They pulled it and they said, okay, it's time for Eli to start. We're making this now. They didn't win a game the rest of the year, but it gave Eli the experience and they ended up winning two Super Bowls with that quarterback. So I think in the long run, but giant, no, no, no, hold on. Hold on. Okay. I know you can't. I know you can't sit here like today and say, well, two is going to win two Super Bowls. So we're doing it now. But if you go back in the law, If you look at like the reactions that were happening in the moment when the Giants made that move people are sure they were excited about Eli, but he had a game in that stretch where he played Baltimore and I remember this vividly where he had a zero rating he was he looked like the worst quarterback that has ever played football ever like Baltimore took him. behind wherever the fuck and just beat him up pretty bad. And it was like, wow, this guy's not going to make it. But he did. Like, that's the thing, you got to pull the plug at some point. And you have to believe in your scouting and what you see in practice and what you see on tape. And if you see the good things, cultivating those into further, like I feel like the dolphins hired one of the good Bellachette disciples. Whereas, like, Detroit... There have not been any good ones. Well, there have been some good ones. There have been a lot more bad ones. What are the good ones? Well, I think Bill O'Brien by all accounts should be considered a success. Jake: Really? Houston this year? You look at that going, he's really good? No, but first of all he got fired, so... Justin: There's that, but I think, I think, I think over, he got fired. But I think going back, if you look at Houston, they were not, you know, they were an expansion franchise and when he got there, they were, they were pretty good during his years there. They were consistently good. So I think Bill O'Brien is one example of a bell check. Disciples who has done well, I think there are more examples of bell check guys who've gone off and done Really shitty like McDaniel's lasted one and a half years Like yeah, I mean sure Romeo Cornell still in the league coaching and he's like he's actually used inside coach right now I think he's my all accounts. He was a failure

1:09:00 Justin: I do think however, this guy Flores is pretty good down in Miami. He's got some shit going for him down there. So whatever. Let's get into let's get into the games this year or Jake: this week. Are you sure Brian? Oh, he just he did just get fired, right? They fired this year. Like, yeah, they were like, oh, for something like that. Yeah, he's 42 52 and 48. For record. He's got a winning record. But his first three seasons, he was there for a frickin long time. I mean, he's only one head technology job. And the first three were nine and seven, nine and seven, nine and seven, four and 12. Then 11 five, 10 and six and oh, and four. It's interesting. That's kind of that's brutal. I mean, pretty brutal, right? Like, Justin: I mean, he developed Sean Watson, like it's sort of fucked up. Like, I think they fired him because he was the GM and the coach and his GM, he was awful. Like he made a lot of bad decisions as a GM. So I think they were just like, you need to go. Like it's over. Like this has, this time has passed. But I can. He's a good coach personally. Anyway, all right. Let's get what do we got? Jake: Well, we got we got actual games. we're supposed to be picking. That's what we do here. We got two games. What do we got? What do we got? We got San Francisco at New England. That's correct. And New England's favored here about two and a half. Yeah, that seems like a pretty, pretty easy one. I don't know about New England, man. Justin: I don't know about them. I think this could be low score. Low scoring affair. I think San Francisco wins this game 17-16. Jake: I think it's higher scoring New England at home. I've watched Cam Newton. He's not. I mean, he's like a highlight reel, but he does make those mistakes. I mean, he does have, he gets hit, he fumbles the ball, he throws bad interceptions. I throw him, saw him throw one ball where the ball literally hit the ground like four feet in front of the receiver. And I was like, that's one of the worst balls I've seen a professional quarterback throw since Bryce Petty. Like, I can't believe I just watched the guy throw and he hit the ground. four feet in front of them just like bounced off the turf and you're like, who threw that? I don't know. I don't see him as a big winner. But San Francisco's I don't think they're a good team. So I think it's more, you know, 2333 pats. So that we can Justin: All right, let's get to our our game because Miami has the eye as we said, so Buffalo is coming to New Jersey. to play some football. And they leave the state of New York to play football. Jake: Can I ask a question? I'm a little bit disappointed too. I get coronavirus, I get not going to the stadium. I see all the stadiums that have players or teams there or 25%, 10%, whatever. And I totally get it.

1:12:02 Jake: I, it's as much as I want to be at these games and I actually do want to be these games would be better. I actually like going to games. But even if they're terrible, but why have the Jets and Giants not figured out the whole put little standy things in the stands like I don't know. Philly did a really nice job. I thought last night. Oh, but they had real Justin: fans there too. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was it was like whatever 20% capacity time like they barely even sparse it looked fine to me. But in the end zones, they put like, so that when field goals or extra points are kicked and whatever, it looks full. Like, there are all these like cutouts, but people in the middle of the cutouts and it looked good. It kind of looked decent, right? Jake: So, but so, again, how much was that cost $100,000 $200,000 or do some printouts and cutouts and have fans submit their pictures and put the man I feel as though Justin: MetLife Stadium is just, it just like they have zero character still. Jake: But they could have done it. They could have done that. Yeah, they could have done a lot of things. I thought, you know, again, I don't want to go to the games. I think it's stupid. I think having even 10,000 people show up to a game is stupid. You're definitely creating more risk. And for me, that risk is too high to go. But Man, every other stadium has sort of figured out the like, let's get the fans into the stadium, let's get the printouts-outs, it can't be that much money, those things must cost like five bucks a shot for print. You get your fans to throw in the pictures, you like put up a thing on a website, Justin: upload your fan picture to your... Well, you do it even better than that. You actually, there are lots of ways to do this. Like Major League Baseball did this very interesting thing, or some of the teams did, where You can you would have to pay. Yeah, hey, you pay like twenty five dollars or whatever and then you're then your picture. OK, so there's a little revenue and maybe covers the cost of doing the fucking thing. But the other thing that you can do, which I thought was really interesting was. They'd raffle off. the opportunity to put your like cut out next to like a famous person cut out or something and like and then like send you a picture of it like that kind of like you could just pay for that like here's you at a game sitting next to you and my friend my friend did this he's a san francisco giants fan and he um he won the raffle to be sitting next to bruce lee and like personally is like Like like sort of sitting there like this like fighting like kung fu style and he's sitting there like He's sitting next to a dead person like a cutout of a dead person. Sure, but like it's very funny It's very funny because he's sitting there like Jake: 2020 to be sitting next to a cutout of a person who's dead at a game. Okay, whatever man It's 2020 and he's for it So there you go. It's just creativity in the jet. The Giants did nothing.

1:15:02 Jake: As you said it, I was like, why not Jets players? Sure. Okay. Whoever sit up. Curtis Martin, like how do we pay to our Joe name or Joe name it sitting between the two of us in our seats. In our just go up a picture of us in our seats, like put Exactly. And you can charge. And you can charge the metal. Justin: And you could charge a spirit and we'd pay. You were right. We totally would have paid for that. It's our seats. Like here we are, our faces rooting for the Jets with Curtis Martin sitting between us. Jake: Sitting between us. And you could put players behind and that would take all of nothing. You could then do it. And I would say you just take a picture and you send it to the fan. Like here's your seats and your people and you have maybe some people around you. And then you have your cutouts that they could put all over the stadium like to make the thing. It's Oh, God, it's so stupid. Like you had you had you had so much time to do this. Frickin get it. And then we have a Monday night game and that eight stadiums can hold like a frickin toilet bowl. And they could have done something. So come on do your jets do something by Monday night. Oh, by the way, I want them to fire gas and after the fire gas, I want Heinz Ward to be our head coach. Justin: I'm in agreement. I'm in agreement with that. So much fun. And what if he's good? Like, that's great. That's the often. All right. Well, well, we have the bills coming to town. We are home and we are also the underdog by almost two touchdowns, 13 and a half point underdogs at home. Got to love that. Based on basically just, you know, statistics and historical measures. Adam Gace does tend to lose by more than 10 points so I guess we can talk about the keys to the castle. There are none. I just show up and don't show up and and don't just like I don't know, forfeit or maybe forfeit would be better because nobody would get injured. Jake: I'm not sure. First of all, we're going to get Sam back. I think we're getting Beckton back. I think we're getting Mims on the field for the first time. Justin: Yes, I do believe I do believe that we're going to have our full like arsenal of weapons minus Lebion Bell. on the field. I think Mims is going to be playing. I think Parramon, he came back last week. And... Oh, that's right. Back to still Doubtful. Are they saying, you know, Sam's Doubtful, really? Well, I think Doubtful is a fine thing until after Friday. like we got to see what happens on the Friday. He was practicing. Jake: So like he was full practice. Well, you got to see what happens today. He did not practice. God damn it. Justin: If he didn't practice, then his shoulder was sore after throwing on Wednesday. And then that would be a problem. So it doesn't matter to me like who the quarterback is here because. We're gonna lose. We're gonna lose pretty hard because the Bills have a way of moving the ball against us when Josh Allen is playing. We have not figured out Josh Allen for some reason.

1:18:10 Justin: We just watched two teams figure him out. Yeah, but we haven't. We need to figure him out because he beats us and He beats us late, he beats us early, he beats us with his legs, he beats us with his arm. We don't have anyone to cover like Saffron Diggs, we don't have anyone to cover John Brown going deep. This is a problem. We don't have any offense to speak of and this is a good defense. Jets lose 30 to 13. Jake: I would just I mean not again, I'm not I'm gonna make the argument of the good defense I gave up 42 points to the Titans. They let them run all over them. They gave up 26 points to the Chiefs. Okay, that's good You keep Chiefs at 26. That's pretty good. This is a beatable team. This is not the undefeated Buffalo Bills. This is a beatable team not for the Jets though. Well, no any given Sunday Justin: I am not like we just don't have any going on the field. Like I've seen zero things happen. Here's some keys to the castle. Josh Jake: Allen gives up the ball. He does he'll throw at least and he'll at least fumble once. Like some that so you I think you get two chances with him two chances a game now he will also run for 90 yards and he's really hard to capture and like you know he's whatever, he's good. But he will give you two chances. So the way to beat him is you have to take those chances and you cannot you a have to score off them big, you need seven points every time he does it. And and then you just have to play a different kind of defense crew, whatever, whatever the Titans and Chiefs did that kept them under 20 points for two games. That's the kind of defense we play. Where is the where's the defense of genius in Williams? He's been actually more disappointing. Like Herndon is like the most disappointing. Gaze or gaze. I just thought it was a piece of shit anyway. But like, I think Herndon is like super disappointing. And then Williams, I'm super disappointed. Williams, like I just there, the tackling is bad. The coverage is bad. The running, like what was the game? Was it the two huge or three huge? Was it the Bills? The first one where they ran like huge runs against us. It was like, what? The Bills had the Bill. Well, that was Josh Allen basically running all over us. No, it was a running back and he took to the side. He did the same play three times. That was San Francisco. Oh, okay. Yeah, you're right. Sam Schiska. Justin: Yeah, but like Greg Williams is no great Shakes. I mean, I always just like he isn't. And then and then you read about it. It's like, oh, this guy historically always loses his players like as the seasons go on, like his defenses get worse. Like year one, they tend to improve from the previous year. Year two. they start to slip. Year three, they really start to go. So like, that's his pattern. And he's been

1:21:02 Justin: a coach forever. It's time for some fresh fucking thinking here. Yeah, no, I'm I'm as much as I Jake: don't always love the college, the college, you know, grabs them out of college, and they're in the Peter principle, they go beyond what they're actually good at. At this point, what do you think about the offensive coordinator or the Chiefs? Justin: Yeah, let's hire him. Let's hire Eric Bienemie. Let's get him in. I think that the Chiefs like succession line in terms of the coaches have been good. Like the guys coming out of there from Andy Reid system like they've all been pretty successful recently at least like Doug Peterson they won a Super Bowl. Nagy. He's been doing pretty good in Chicago. The enemy is like the next guy. Why not try that? Put in an offense that looks more like that. I feel as though this is going to sound fucking super fucking crazy. But I feel like Sam Darnold's physical skill sets align with Patrick Mahomes' physical skill sets. Are they the same player? No, but I think Sam has all those things he can throw from any angle He can move to his left. He can move to his right. He can he's got that He just doesn't have to rekill to just be open all the time He doesn't have Travis Kelsey to just be open when he needs it he doesn't have guys who run for to 540 is just running all over the fucking place and He doesn't have motion all over the place in the backfield to confuse the shit out of people before the play starts like The offense is actually really simple, but they confuse everybody with motion. And then, like, we don't do that. Like, first and 10, run up the middle. First and 10, run up the middle, gain three yards. Second and seven, throw the ball to the out for four yards, get to third and three. That is like Adam Gase's main goal, third and three. And it's like, dude, your main goal should be first and 10. Always, like on first and 10, get a first down. Like, why is that not the goal? Jake: Well, unless you have your 40 year old quarterback and the first play of the game, and then you just whip it down the field. Sure. Because that's the plan. I mean, not to have a scheme or anything, but like first play. your 40 year old quarterback and these wide receivers who dropped more balls than catch. Let's just here's the first play of the game. And then I love when he actually played the same play twice in a row. And it missed both times. Like once the overthrow him with I was like, is this Justin: practice? Are we practicing? He can't even he can't even do the flaco play where he just throws the ball 50 yards down the field because we don't have the receiver to run the 50 yard fucking play. Like how sad is that? Jake: All right, so keys to castle. I'm gonna go there. They want to get the frick out of here. It's an hour and a half. Oh my goodness. That's sad. Ramble. Let's get out of here. Not no keys. Just tell us a story.

1:24:01 Jake: Jet's gonna win. Sure they are. They're gonna win 13 to 12. I'm telling you. Oh yeah? Okay. We're gonna win. I guarantee it. Sounds good. Never pick against the Jets. Never. Justin: We're gonna win. Sounds great. Fuck the world. This will be one of those games that I pick up on you in the pick'em. Jake: I don't know what I picked in the pick'em. I deny. I think I probably picked him with plausible I mean that's like a first half spread for me, for the Jets. Look, we can't keep sucking at this level. We've got to have about that game. Explain to me why you think that's true. Justin: Like there's no like, I don't know. There's no reason to think that this isn't going to play. Jake: I don't know exactly how all the other games have played out. Justin: There's nothing there. Like when you watch it, there's nothing to like grasp onto and be like, ah, that that was good. There's literally nothing that you see that's like, oh. Jake: if they could just do that more often or like there's not a yard. Sam's 30 yard rush touchdown Justin: was pretty impressive. Like Yeah, but it was of course, but that's a broken play that the guy made. And that's why I kind of compare his skill set to like a guy like my homes because he's he can do those things. But he's not in an offense that really allows it. He's in an offense that's super rigid that relies on like very quick hit like three yard passing game. It's bullshit offense. I hate I want Jake: the hurry up offense. I just want them to stay and hurry up come out in the hurry up with Sam. I Sam even playing but whatever. That's that's I say come out in the hurry up offense. Let him call the plays at the line. Like your place suck anyway, gaze. You we said you take the play calling away. You didn't do it. Just control every control freak and he's bad. So it's your bad. All right, well, that's it. We'll be out of here. I control this podcast. It's Justin is Jake saying let's go Jets